A bit of a Rant

[LadyyOftheOak]

I have a peeve that is developing in earnest now. For the last couple of weeks I've set up a booth outside of our Michaels to promote my classes as well as hopefully sell some things (which has worked great on both counts :clap ) But more and more I'm having people stop and say they tried the classes but just couldn't do it :( On questioning them further I find out that the teacher prior to me told them flat "you're doing it wrong" if they needed to hold the needle or hook a different way. Now we all know there are several different ways to hold crochet hooks as well as knitting needles.. why on earth would a teacher especially just dismiss every way except the way she does it as "wrong". Instead of exploring other methods that might work better for their hand eye coordination or their understanding, she basically just blew them out of the water and left them very frustrated and disappointed :(

I crochet holding my hook like a pencil... I know people that hold it in their palm. Knitting I knit continental but I know several that knit English.. I am bound and determined I'm going to become proficient in each method so if one method doesn't work for a particular student we will find a method and style that does work for them. When I think of how many people got put off of fiber arts because of a teacher like this it breaks my heart :( Why would someone do this? I know I have my preferred methods, but it definitely doesn't make anything different WRONG. As long as the end result comes out good then what difference should it make? :think

GGrrrr... I really don't understand people sometimes :(

[judianne]

i understand you completely:thair ...i hold the crochet hook both ways you mentioned. it depends on how tired my hand is...as long as it works, IMO you can stand on your head and crochet or knit!:tup

happy hooking!(and :knit ing)

[crochetmama]

Donna, Bless your heart for wanting to teach others how to crochet and knit!

I basically taught myself by books and my husband's aunt helped me a little bit when I was in the learning-the-HDC-and-DC stage of beginning crochet. She was full of wonderful useful information that she freely shared, but something else she also "shared" was how she had been taught to crochet. She kept telling me I had to ("HAD TO") hold the yarn a specific way or something really bad was going to happen (I never did figure that part out!). :think

The harder I tried to hold my yarn the way she told me to do it, the harder (and less fun) crocheting became. :( Finally after I left and continued to go through the book, I just held the yarn the way that felt right for me. Thank heavens! Now that I've been crocheting for several years, I've learned that I naturally hold the thread differently for the different types of yarn and thread, and if my hand is hurting, I hold it an entirely different way, and sometimes if it's a real slippery thread or yarn, I'll even loop it an extra time through my fingers for extra tension. I've learned which ways work best for me.

Some time later when she saw how much I was crocheting, she told me she didn't know how I could do anything since I kept holding my thread all wrong!! She told me that when she had learned, whoever taught her had done the same thing to her and had even made her rip apart many of her projects and redo them holding the thread and hook "correctly". Apparently her teacher claimed to be able to tell where she had been holding the thread or hook the wrong way!!! (Maybe her tension was really off there??!)

I'll bet something similar happened to the teacher before you. Well, thank heavens you're in there now! And what an advantage you have now when former students tell you what they had gone through, you can reassure them that you are NOT that type of a teacher! Your enthusiasm and eagerness to teach them will win them over in no time! (And make you, Michaels, and the student all happy at the same time!)

Have fun! :hook :clap

[Grifter]

If I had a teacher like the one you described, I doubt I would be crocheting today!

Is there anything you can do to bring these people into your class? Maybe offer them one free session? Or send a mailing to the former students describing your own teaching methods?

[tlisley]

I know I hold my stuff pretty "funky" compared to all the "instructions"...lol. I can not wrap the yarn around my pinky at all. It's just draped over my index finger. My G'ma says I hold my hook like a shovel...lol. I'm sure I'd make a teacher like that pull their hair out.
(BTW, my g'ma says I shovel beautifully...ROFL!!)

[LadyyOftheOak]

hahaha Traci & Judi! as long as it works yeah?

I, like everyone else apparently, hold my thread different ways depending on the yarn and what i'm making. With thread I wrap it an extra time for tension and with regular worsted weight I just drape it through my fingers... real bulky yarn I have to focus on keeping myhands loose so it just glides through. I haven't mastered the "shovel" method of holding the hook ... yet ;) But I can see where changing the way you hold the hook would help with hand pain.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts.. and I think I've made some impressions on folks that have come up and asked me about it. I never met this other teacher and she's moved on now with the military I think so it's all my classes now.. and what prompted me to get back into knitting actually.. so it's all good. Maybe I can entice some of the others back into the class as they come by the store :) There's no way to get a mailing list I don't think and I'm still working with the EC to get the calendar laid out.. it does not mention the Crochet or Knitting classes on the back, only on the dates.. ggrr.. so it's a work in progress.

I know it's sure expanding my thinking in huge ways... I love it :)

[mva5493]

I have never taken a class at Michaels or any other craft store, but I do have a bit of experience with this topic. I have just recently (within the last 3 months) decided to learn how to knit. I bought one of those "I taught myself to knit" kits about 8 years ago, couldn't make sense of it and put it in the closest. Well to make a long story short, I have been spending time with an elderly neighbor. She knits beautifully, she tried showing me how to knit, the first time she tried I just could not get it. She told me I was holding the yarn wrong, that my stitches were too tight. I gave up again and put it down. I decided to give it another shot about two weeks ago. I did one of crochet Kim's online classes (tunisian crochet) and really enjoyed it. This time I sat down with the book and went over it and made a swatch, I was proud of my accomplishment, it had errors but what beginner project doesn't. So anyway, I took my swatch down to show my neighbor and her response to me was : your stitches are too tight and it is full of mistakes, you should rip it out and start over, and wait for me to teach you how to do it. I was so disappointed by her reaction that I didn't want her to see anything that I have done knit or crochet. I am just finishing my first scarf that I am sure has lots of mistake and is not about to win any blue ribbons, but that's okay with me, I am making it for my dd who requested it. I think when I teach my daughter to knit or crochet (she's 8 and wants me to teach her) I will try to be positive about it, and not negative, I know from experience that it changes the way you feel about it.

[LadyyOftheOak]

Wow... I think alot of folks respond like that without realizing how negative it sounds. Now I'm not beyond saying "here's where you made your mistake" and showing them.. but I don't ask anyone to rip out unless it's somethig that changes the whole shape of the project.. ie.. loosing stitch count as you make turns.. then we work on how to do it correctly and move on from there.

I think so far it's been really positive and the people that have taken the class have left smiling and with confidence in what they are doing. I try to check back up with them as well to see how they are doing a few days later and this has been well received as well.

When my MIL saw me knitting she said "oh you knit like you crochet" which makes sense when you see how I hold the thread and needles.. but she never said "oh you're holding it the wrong way" like I've had people come up to me in the store while doing demos and say :lol I just smile and say "its the end result that counts" and smile really big.. :D and then shake my head a little at close minded people :devil

[Phoenix]

As long as you're technically making a crochet stitch, the little stuff doesn't matter. shame on those negative teachers!

Of course, there's such a thing as an overly enthusiastic teacher who pays too little attention to technique. My example: a friend wanted to *teach* me to crochet before I knew anything about it. I tried, got a sorta even scarf going, took it home and my mom saw me working on it and laughed out loud. She handed me a book so I could teach myself. Turns out my friend was having me do it *backwards* (left to right, and I am right handed), doing all slip stitch (and she claimed it was single crochet), and working from the bottom of the piece down.

So I taught myself from the book, and boy oh boy was she surprised when she was me working on my projects and doing it *wrong* compared to her!

[yarngirl06]

I took a knitting class at Michael's in October. The lady was wonderful but the class was a let-down. We spent the entire 2 hours just doing the knit stitch. I had already learned that much by myself. I didn't go back for anymore of her classes....but she was very nice and patient...and I never heard her tell anyone they were doing it 'wrong'.

[LadyyOftheOak]

You've definitely got to gauge it based on skill level. I had a knitting class last night and the lady that was taking the class had NEVER held knitting needles before. It took the 2 hours to get her at least comfortable:

1. Holding the needles
2. Managing and controlling the yarn
3. Making a knit stitch
4. Casting on

We started english method (throwing) but when this was too diffiult and she moved to the continental method with much more ease but it still took the full 2 hours plus a few minutes to get her to the point she felt comfortable with the knit stitch. If I had thrown a purl at her it would have totally confused her. You just can't throw too much in one small class. Now if she had come in already knowing this stitch of course we could have moved onto other things or whatever was giving her problems. I really wish they would offer a series of classes for a project :-/

I know this isn't crocheting but felt it's relevant .. I've had the same problem with the crochet classes..you can learn the very basics.. but you definitely cannot become proficient in either craft just from one 2-hour class. Would this disatisfy some people do you think?

[iSiSfae]

the GM of the Curves i got to is like that. you can't modify how you use the machines at all. even if it means the modification is less likely to lead to injury for the person using the equipment. but she follows what corporate says to the letter. no variations allowed.

i know that when i crochet i don't hold the yarn "the right way" i learned to knit first so i throw my yarn with my left hand like you would with your right hand in english style knitting. actually i knit with a left handed version of english! i'm a righty but throwing with my left hand seems more natural

it saddens me to see people who do that, think that there is only one way and it's their way or the corporate way and nothing else. these people shouldn't be teaching! or leaving the house for that matter. being that closed minded makes things boring and more difficult. i think that's why i like the SnB books so much. Debbie Stoller takes the stance that everyone ends up modifying for comfort and she's very casual in her instructions

so go on and encourage those who were discouraged and create more hookers! the world definitely needs more!

[LadyyOftheOak]

hahaha "The World needs more hookers!" I may have to make a sign up like that to advertise my classes.. definitely would get noticed on shock value!! :P

[iSiSfae]

shock value is good... the stuff in my store is all shock stuff if you don't know knitting/hooking lingo lol

[LadyyOftheOak]

I can just see my Event Coordinator's face now if I put up a big sign in the yarn department "HOOKER CLASSES NOW AVAILABLE AT MICHAELS!!!"

:rofl

[Nevermore]

I have no idea if I hold my hook/yarn the "right" way, but it's comfortable and works for me. :)

I taught myself to knit from a book and was doing okay until my sister made fun of the way I was holding the needles. I tried to re-learn the "right" way without success, but just recently a knitter told me she holds her needles similarly to the way I did. I honestly didn't try knitting again for about a year because I thought I couldn't do it the "right" way, but am going to try again because I feel validated now.

It can be hard for some people to provide constructive criticism rather than just cut others down. I don't get it--I mean how hard is it to say "it might work better for you if you try it this way..." rather than "you're doing it wrong."

[LadyyOftheOak]

That's it exactly :) My student last night, if I had insisted she continue doing it one way she'd have given up.. but we changed and she caught right on to it. It's weird how that works :)

Now I just wonder if I can learn to crochet left handed for my left handed students? Hmm... http://www.century-oak.com/emotes/thinking.gif

[iSiSfae]

I can just see my Event Coordinator's face now if I put up a big sign in the yarn department "HOOKER CLASSES NOW AVAILABLE AT MICHAELS!!!"

:rofl

a guy i know over on myspace calls himself the Woodstock Hooker as he's from Woodstock, NY and his cousin also hooks and i've been told that he posted an ad for a crochet group for young men and boys on the church bulletin board that read like this

"new group for young male hookers"

both me and the woodstock hooker thought it was hysterical!!!

[iSiSfae]

ha! your catch phrase could be

"hookers do it faster. join the class and find out how!"

don't mean to plug... but my online store now carries items that say "hookers do it faster (than knitters)" with a pic of a wooden crochet hook.

if i taught a class and had to do registration in person, i'd so wear one of my shirts. i did order a messenger bag w/ the slogan to keep my WIPs in.

[LadyyOftheOak]

ROFLMFAO!! I LOVE IT!!!!!

http://www.century-oak.com/emotes/pmsl.gif

[zazzu]

I've had the same problem with the crochet classes..you can learn the very basics.. but you definitely cannot become proficient in either craft just from one 2-hour class. Would this disatisfy some people do you think?It seems that some people want to take a 2-hour class and walk out with a sweater they've just crocheted/knitted :rolleyes Attention spans are short these days.

I've attended many knit/crochet/quilt classes over the years. For me, it usually wasn't the teacher who made a class difficult - it was a student(s). There's always at least one student who has to pretend to be a second teacher and offer unsolicited criticism. Usually this person has no idea what she's talking about and just wastes class time. :angry Of course, a really good teacher will put the NosyRosy in her place ;)

At this point I feel more comfortable paying for one-on-one instruction or just buying an instructional DVD. :D

[waponswa]

How true. It is an artform/skill like many other things. You wouldn't expect to be a ballarina after only 2 hour workshop, so why would any one expect to be able to make a sweater? First your hands have to develop the muscle and coordination, you need to learn to see and feel the stitch, manage tension, and learn to correct mistakes, and read the pattern... and any teacher that is a good teacher will break that down into 'mini-lessons' while accomidating individual style.

True teachers are also life long learners themselves, and would likely seek to know many ways of achieving an outcome, even if they don't incorporate all of them into their own personal style. There are so many 'how to' articles for choosing the right dance teacher, dog trainer, martial arts instructor etc. Are there any articles on how to chose the right crochet/knitting teacher, and what to expect for your first class?

I'm fortunate to have access to local 'yarn only' store which puts out a newsletter that describes each class and what you will learn and make. I took beginning knitting, with a wonderful techer and we spent 4 classes making a basic knit hat. By the time you were done, you had the basic skills to to beginner level work.

[LadyyOftheOak]

I havent' had problems like that, but thanks for the heads up :)

[iSiSfae]

It seems that some people want to take a 2-hour class and walk out with a sweater they've just crocheted/knitted :rolleyes Attention spans are short these days.

I've attended many knit/crochet/quilt classes over the years. For me, it usually wasn't the teacher who made a class difficult - it was a student(s). There's always at least one student who has to pretend to be a second teacher and offer unsolicited criticism. Usually this person has no idea what she's talking about and just wastes class time. :angry Of course, a really good teacher will put the NosyRosy in her place ;)

At this point I feel more comfortable paying for one-on-one instruction or just buying an instructional DVD. :D

if it was a knitting class you could show them how to knit the "Weasley Cell Cozy" (http://www.grittyknits.com/ViewPost755.aspx) which is basically a small Weasley sweater (from the Harry Potter series) that's used as a cell phone cozy... it would satisfy those who want to walk out with a sweater :sofunny :devil

[FancyFingers]

On questioning them further I find out that the teacher prior to me told them flat "you're doing it wrong" if they needed to hold the needle or hook a different way.

I hope I'm not too guilty of this! I just got through teaching an 8-week knitting course to a group of homeschool girls age 6-14 (we did crochet last year), and I made a point of telling them to hold their needles however they felt comfortable, *but* I spent a *lot* of time threading the yarn through the youngest ones' fingers to try to get them to hang on to their yarn. :(

The older girls did really well, but the younger ones didn't practice at home, and some of them would actually frog what little they had done, so every week I'd come back and have to start over with casting on. *sigh* :eek

I crochet holding my hook like a pencil... I know people that hold it in their palm. Knitting I knit continental but I know several that knit English.. I am bound and determined I'm going to become proficient in each method so if one method doesn't work for a particular student we will find a method and style that does work for them.


I admire your commitment to being the best teacher you can be! :cheer

I don't even hold a pencil like a pencil, so I wasn't picky about that, but I sure wish I'd had just half a clue about the Continental and Combination methods about two months ago! This thread led me to the online tutorials at knittinghelp.com, and I am just blown away. There are six different cast-on methods there - I could have taught those kids a new one every week! :D

I spent all day yesterday "relearning" to knit while also using dpns for the first time. I was almost :thair. Ugh! Today, I crochet! :lol

[LadyyOftheOak]

hahahah agotta love dpn's!!! Isisfae I would never try to get a newb to knit a sweater, even a tiny one on DPN's.. omigosh.. I"d wind up crucified to the wall or something, I come dangerously close to that myself with DPN!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

So far, and I've only been teaching a couple of months now, but so far I have 1 set of students that are coming for return lessons and truly have a desire to learn this. The mother of the set is doing awesome and is really thrilled and understands its practice practice practice!!! That is so so important. I'm really encouraged :)

FancyFingers :) I don't think it's wrong to remind them how to hold the thread *if* it's causing problems, and it can if what they are doing is causing problems. Ie.. the last crochet student i had kept wrapping her thread around her pinkie and it was causing her tension problems, I had to remind her gently a couple of times not to fight with the yarn but just let it flow. It worked out in the end and she's making a beautiful scarf out of Patons SWS :)

The mantra I tell my students whether knitting or crocheting, and it always gets a giggle is "the yarn wants to be something beautiful.. relax and let it flow and it will work... fight with it and you'll have a cat toy :P "

[craftybutterfly]

:lol Such good stories!!! LOL ----> Hookers do it faster

The lady that taught me gave me a 15 minute lesson, and appearantly I'm a fast learner, 'cause I took off after that and I'm self-taught everything else, but anyway, she had me hold the hook like a knife, bacause that's how she did it, and had me wrap the yarn around my fingers like she did. That was nearly 30 years ago, and I'm still doing it the same way. I've tried holding the hook like a pencil, and its like trying to write with my left hand. Very foreign. I'm glad nobody ever told me it was "wrong", I'd probably poke them with my hook.

As a side note, you can also check out video's on knitting at your local public library (if they have video's that is). I did that and taught myself to cast on, and do the knit stitch. Even made a scarf. But never got any further than that. My hands just don't know what to do with two needles in stead of one hook. :)

[CDBear]

I'm supposed to teach classes at both Hancock's and a yarn shop downtown. I'm so glad I found this thread!! :D

Most of the patrons of the LYS are knitters, but the shop owner has said that she's had some folks asking about crochet. She can crochet, but is not comfortable trying to teach. She's going to advertise, to see how much response she gets to classes, and then she's going to let me know...

I met the manager of the Hancock Fabrics store here in town and she commented on the yarn I was purchasing. We had a great conversation, and she asked if I would be interested in teaching.

WOO HOO!! I can't wait to get started!!! :clap

[CraftyShannon]

I've attended many knit/crochet/quilt classes over the years. For me, it usually wasn't the teacher who made a class difficult - it was a student(s). There's always at least one student who has to pretend to be a second teacher and offer unsolicited criticism. Usually this person has no idea what she's talking about and just wastes class time. :angry Of course, a really good teacher will put the NosyRosy in her place ;)


I had the same problem at a class for machine embroidery once. It was a beginner's class for people who had never done any embroidery before, but there was these two women (sharing the same machine) who had practiced at home. Literally, the first thing they asked was something they clearly knew was in lesson 2, and the teacher told them to wait until the next lesson.

After that, every 5 minutes, they were trying to brag about what they already knew...forget that half of what they self taught themselves was wrong, so they constantly needed special attention. All through the class, they were determined to get Lesson 2 thrown in the class as well, which was not fair to the rest of us. Because of their nonsense, this 2 hour class dragged on for an extra hour and a half with the rest of us learning nothing. Such a shame really, because instead of the teacher taking control and remembering all her students, she eventually lost control and catered only to these two know-it-alls.

At the end of the class, we each embroidered our own monogram. I'll sound mean, but it was a good feeling that the know-it-alls messed up their design while the ones of us who were there to learn all did ours correctly.

The Michael's near me has had a sign up for months asking for a crochet instructor. They have someone to teach knitting, but apparently they've had customers asking for someone to teach crochet. I've halfway considering applying, but I know I'm not assertive enough to deal with that type of student.

[LadyyOftheOak]

I haven't had any students like that thankfully :) A couple of people that had done it long ago and needed a refresher, a couple that were just raw beginners but everyone has been great :)

I'm about to contact a knitting shop in the town next to us and see if they offer any kind of classes.. or if they want to ;) And I'm definitely about to go through the certified instructor thing through CYCA as well. I really enjoy teaching :)

[mason204]

I started a crochet ministry at my church in the fall and of the 15 or so people who joined, there were at least 5 or 6 who were told previously that they were "doing it wrong". :2nono

Turned out, one was a good friend of mine who I knew was an avid knitter but didn't know she could crochet as well as she did. The thing was she also held her hook like a pencil. She said that she abandoned crocheting years ago because she kept hearing her teacher's voice telling her she was doing it wrong. I told her she could hold her hook whatever way she felt comfortable and she's now an avid crocheter. She appreciated hearing it from me and I believe it's now "set her free". :2rock

She's made about 10 - 12 inch granny squares for the comfortghans we've put together. She recently made Short & sweet from the Happy Hooker book for her daughter.