The State of the Forum

[Donna]

Amy and I have been busy little bees behind the scenes over the past few months! We’ve been discussing and working on the best way to continue giving Crochetville the care and feeding it needs. Because our community has grown into a major presence on the web it’s time to make things “official,” so to speak. (Actually, it’s long overdue!) We’ve consulted with a trusted attorney who has helped us develop a privacy policy, terms of use (TOU), and copyright notice for Crochetville. (You’ll soon see links for them at the bottom of every page here.) A smaller web site can often get by without these documents, but for a web site of our size, they are necessary for the protection of all members as well as our protection as owners/administrators of the site.

Also, the costs of running Crochetville, both in money and time, have risen dramatically over the past year. As you may remember, we had to move to a dedicated server last summer when our site kept repeatedly crashing the shared server on which it was hosted. We were busting at the seams! At the time, we were paying $24.95/month for shared hosting. Now our dedicated server costs hundreds of dollars per month. Additional costs include things such as taxes and attorney fees. At this point, Amy and I have long since exhausted the Crochetville kitty, which was made up primarily of auction proceeds and donations, and we’ve each put hundreds of dollars of our own money into the site.

In terms of time, Crochetville is not just a hobby any more, but has become a job. Don’t get us wrong, we still love it here, probably more than ever! But between the two of us, Amy and I put in at least a 40-hour work week, if not more. Most of the work we do needs to be done by administrators rather than anyone else, especially in light of our new privacy policy. There are a few small tasks we can assign to moderators, but that won’t decrease our time load significantly.

So, we’ve been discussing how we’ll take in revenue. For starters, we’ll return the Google ads to the forum. If you were here in 2005, you’ll remember that they appeared unobtrusively right before the last post in each thread, and that’s how they’ll be again. In the near future, we’ll be accepting crochet/fiber-related ads, which will be displayed as a banner at the top of the forum. We promise they’ll be tasteful, non-animated, relevant to crochet, and hopefully of interest to you! At this time, we haven’t planned any other means of bringing in revenue, but we’ll continue to explore options. Rest completely assured, though, that Crochetville membership and all the features you’ve come to know and love will remain FREE to all members as they have always been. We’re not going to start charging for the things you’ve come to know and love.

Okay, so one last, but not least, legal bit in terms of making Crochetville “official” is that we’ve been advised that the best way to handle expenses, revenue, taxes, and other legal issues is to form an LLC (Limited Liability Corporation) for Crochetville, which we have just completed. It’s pretty exciting stuff for us, but for the members, things will go on as normal. It just means we’ll be able to handle things more easily in the background to keep Crochetville humming along.

Thank you for your attention through this long post! And thank you for being the absolutely fabulous members you are!

[RachelG]

I just want to say thank you so much for being busy little bees behind the scenes for us! I am a looooooooooooooooong time member and Crochetville has always been a great place to be! :hook

[diamond]

I remember the days when the 'Ville would crash and the move to your own server. I, also, remember at the time the discussions about a membership fee. IMHO I still think it's what the 'Ville needs. Not that it would cut down on memberships but I can imagine the financial burden it can be for Donna & Amy. I think a yearly membership of $15-25 wouldn't hurt anyone. Look at all the things we would get for $25 a year. All the resources, patterns, help and friendships. I know I would gladly donate $25 for a membership to the 'Ville.

Whatever Donna & Amy decide to do, I'll always be a member. I'm with you 100%.

[Happy_Hooker]

I wasn't around here when all that stuff was going on, but I am glad you're both doing everything you can to make it easier on yourselves to keep us up and running.

[Katchkan]

I also think a membership fee would not be bad thing.
I would prefer it to the banners and the google ads. I don't know what you think each member would need to contribute to make this a going concern, without changing the basic look and feel of the place. But I know pesonally I would be more than willing to pay one.
Ads on a board makes it seem like it is canted that direction even if it isn't. I find them distracting. I was glad when you removed them the first time.

[KnicKnac]

I second, third and fourth a membership fee and would be happy to pay my part. I second Kathy's desire to have this rather than an ad.

Is there a possibility it can be set up that if you pay for a membership you wouldn't see the ads? I would do that. I would GLADLY pay.

But this is your puppy, and whatever it takes for me to be here, I will do. I wish you had a community chest, like ezboard used to, I would have donated LONG ago.

[Redheart]

As a new member, I'm sorry to admit that I took all of this for granted. I never gave a thought to the time or expense involved. Whatever you decide to do will be OK with me. Thank you for all your efforts on our behalf!
Terry

[Beaglelady]

Actually the $25.00 a year membership might be a bit tight for some. When broken out it's only a little over $1.00 a month or 48 cents a week.
That I could handle. But how would you charge? There are
Members: 11,081, Active Members: 5,643 currently. I think a lot of thought needs to be put into this. Like is a members 'posting' put on hold until the money is received by Amy or Donna? Credit card, money order, check? Do they loose posting prevliges until a membership is paid for by a specfic date? Just some thoughts here. I think I'm in for the long run.
It's the only forum that I belong to and I've made a LOT of friends.

[skydramini]

A membership fee is really not something I'd enjoy. Or afford. It may seem like nothing to some, but it can go elsewhere in terms of my own budget.

The few times I've seen forums where you have to pay, and they are rare, the option was there to allow for people willing to pay the fee to avoid the ads. Those members didn't get special privileges other than that and it kept the place peaceful and affordable.

I really don't mind ads all that much - especially if they mean that I get to keep enjoying a free ressource. And those that do could pay a premium to avoid them.

Those are just my thoughts.

[AmyS]

Thanks for your comments, everyone! Donna and I have thoroughly discussed the possibility of requiring a paid membership in order to participate here at Crochetville. We are just not comfortable with requiring members to start paying for something they've received for free all along. That seems to go against the grain of our spirit of sharing freely with each other here.

I think most members would probably agree that paying $15-$25 a year for everything they receive from Crochetville is quite a bargain. However, we do have many members who just couldn't stretch their budgets to add in that extra $15-$25, no matter how big a bargain they thought it was and no matter how much they wanted to do so. We don't want those members to feel forced to give up something more essential to their daily well-being in order to participate on Crochetville or else just have to do without Crochetville altogether. So we definitely are not going to make everyone pay a membership fee. :)

I understand concerns about ads changing the look and feel of the place. However, I hope everyone can trust Donna and me to choose tasteful ads that will integrate into the current look of Crochetville. The Google ads will be limited to text-only ads, and we'll set custom colors so they will blend in and not be distracting.

The banner ads will be pretty and non-intrusive (no animation, no flashing, no music, etc), and they will be content related to crochet and fiber arts. Once you scroll your page down to view posts in a thread, you won't even be seeing the ad anymore.

Now, the idea of an optional membership fee/donation which would mean you wouldn't see ads is a definite possibility! We'll have to give some serious thought to this, but the basic concept is a good one! Things like, what is the minimum donation level to remove ads? Would we offer it on a yearly basis only? A quarterly basis? Lots of things to think about, but I can see how this is something that would work. Not to mention, we also have to check into the technical aspects of how we'd make this work!

[lhasaapsolady]

To me it doesn't matter one way or the other, I just won't read the advertisements. Amy and Donna put so much time and effort into keeping our happy little ville a great place to visit, they'll do what they think is best for all members. Thanks ladies for all you do behind the scenes.

[Pumpkinmouse]

What about having another auction to buy things we make on here or howabout A Crochetville Etsy Shop where members donate their finished goods or original patterns, yarns, hooks, etc (everything must be brand new of course)..And all the proceeds go to Crochetville... Or maybe have something where if you Donate money to CrochetVille you get something say a mug or something like that depending on the amount of the donation :think

Dont mind me Im just rambling on here the wheels are burning in me head OUCH :lol

[diamond]

What about having another auction to buy things we make on here or howabout A Crochetville Etsy Shop where members donate their finished goods or original patterns, yarns, hooks, etc (everything must be brand new of course)..And all the proceeds go to Crochetville... Or maybe have something where if you Donate money to CrochetVille you get something say a mug or something like that depending on the amount of the donation :think

Dont mind me Im just rambling on here the wheels are burning in me head OUCH :lol
I think this is a great idea. I remember the first auction here 2 years ago. I kept bumping up my bid price for a Oriental Sock Monkey. It was too cute. I still have her even. I didn't mind going higher as I knew the money was going to a good cause. I'm all for another auction.

[comfort80]

i love this site, but my budget is stretched so tight, that its hard to even buy yarn at times. i would love to be able to make donation to help ease your financial burden, but my own is overwhelming as it is! But... i like pumpkinmouse's suggestion about donating finished goods towards an auction or etsy shop, since we're all making things anyhow, that sounds like it would be something we could all contribute to.

[KnicKnac]

Now, the idea of an optional membership fee/donation which would mean you wouldn't see ads is a definite possibility! We'll have to give some serious thought to this, but the basic concept is a good one! Things like, what is the minimum donation level to remove ads? Would we offer it on a yearly basis only? A quarterly basis? Lots of things to think about, but I can see how this is something that would work. Not to mention, we also have to check into the technical aspects of how we'd make this work!

I for one am glad you are giving this a thought. I know it's being done on other boards, but I wouldn't have any idea how. But I appreciate you even considering the idea.

This is what "I" would be able to afford to have the pleasure of no ads, and also to know that I "personally" had a hand in helping (yeah, I am selfish that way) - I would gladly pay anywhere from $25 - $50 a year to be able to come here ad free. There has to be some way of just clicking a little button that says "KnicKnac gets to see the board ad free from blah blah to blah blah".

Anyway, I digress.

[AmyS]

Thanks for all your suggestions. Please keep in mind, though, that we don't want to implement any solution that's going to have to require a lot of additional time to coordinate.

The etsy shop sounds good at first glance, but we'd have to have all items donated sent to a central location (either Donna or myself), and then we'd have to spend more time boxing and shipping. This could quickly get way beyond what we're able to handle. And we really would not be comfortable accepting money for the business without the business being the responsible party for shipping items that were purchased. Too many chances for things to go wrong otherwise.

So while suggestions involving the distribution of merchandise sound good on the surface, they may just not be practicable to work out. I'm not saying we're ruling those ideas out completely, just that the logistics would have to be thoroughly investigated first.

[Katchkan]

I think this is a great idea. I remember the first auction here 2 years ago. I kept bumping up my bid price for a Oriental Sock Monkey. It was too cute. I still have her even. I didn't mind going higher as I knew the money was going to a good cause. I'm all for another auction.I also remember that auction, Not only did I donate. But I paid way more for a few items then I ever would have otherwise to ensure the place retained it's community appeal and didn't take on a commercial aspect. I had fun and felt good knowing where and how my money was going to be used.
Are you looking to just recamp operating expenses? or are you going to be looking to looking to let this become income? That is going to make a big difference in the amount of funds needed.

[AmyS]

There has to be some way of just clicking a little button that says "KnicKnac gets to see the board ad free from blah blah to blah blah".

Yes, I'm pretty sure that capability is already built in to our vBulletin forum software. Donna and I just need to go read the user manuals to figure out the best way to implement something like this.

So we'll be working on figuring out how to put a plan like that in place. Hopefully, the software could handle it all for us automatically so we don't have to keep track of the ad/no-ad status of over 11,000 members manually!!! I don't even want to add up the hours that would take each week!

[Jimmie Lu]

I for one am glad this is saying free. Why shouldnt all those yarn shops pay for us to be here. Seriously If this were a fee board I would have to leave. Not because comming here isnt worth the bucks but because of the tight budgit I live on. I love this site. its the first one I come to and I visit here at least 2xs a day. I have made so many friends here and would be sad if I couldnt afford to visit. Thanks Amy and Donna for all you do to keep us running. And also to all the moderators who keeps us friendly and welcoming board.

[AmyS]

Are you looking to just recamp operating expenses? or are you going to be looking to looking to let this become income? That is going to make a big difference in the amount of funds needed.

Before we could even think about the place generating income to pay salaries, we have quite a bit of past expenses to reimburse ourselves for.

Now that you bring it up, I don't know of many people who actually work 20-40 hours a week for free, so I have to say the idea of being compensated for all the work hours we spend here (as opposed to the hours spent here just for fun just like everyone else) certainly has an appeal! :) But I think the time at which Crochetville could ever potentially offer either Donna or me a living wage is quite a long time off!

[Katchkan]

Before we could even think about the place generating income to pay salaries, we have quite a bit of past expenses to reimburse ourselves for.

Now that you bring it up, I don't know of many people who actually work 20-40 hours a week for free, so I have to say the idea of being compensated for all the work hours we spend here (as opposed to the hours spent here just for fun just like everyone else) certainly has an appeal! :) But I think the time at which Crochetville could ever potentially offer either Donna or me a living wage is quite a long time off!I certainly don't begrudge you or Donna compensation. It just needs to be added to the equation so we all have a better idea of what is truly needed. I know you aren't expecting a living wage off this place. That would be more fantasy than reality .

[jadyn05]

has adding another administrator to the site been considered?

As far as the etsy shop idea, couldn't that be handled by a 3rd administrator? It seems like you and donna take a lot on yourselves. There are quite a few members who have been here a long time, maybe accepting applications for the position wouldn't be a terrible idea. Maybe that isn't possible, but maybe it is.

Can a paypal account be set up for members to send money to for the purpose of keeping this place up and running? Even those who wouldn't be able to pay a membership fee to get rid of the ads could probably contribute $5 now and then.

I really love the auction Idea. It goes right along with the Stash Busting crochet along..... what better reason to de-stash than to keep this place going? I would gladly make items to donate to the auction, and again, even those who might not be able to pay a membership fee could probably make something for the auction.

One more question.... how many administrators are there? And how many moderators are there? I mentioned adding an administrator... are more mods needed?

[crochetgoddess]

I also love that the it is going to remain a free site. I am wondering if it would be worth assigning moderators for each section and maybe that would help relieve some of the stress off Amy and Donna. I know that there are several members including myself that would volunteer our time to moderate sections and give you guys a break from being here so much.

[AmyS]

Can a paypal account be set up for members to send money to for the purpose of keeping this place up and running? Even those who wouldn't be able to pay a membership fee to get rid of the ads could probably contribute $5 now and then.

The way the vBulletin software works, we can set up "subscriptions" for a specific amount of money that would then let us assign those members to a secondary usergroup that would enable them not to see any ads.

We could set up a subscription that wouldn't affect the ad viewing, but we'd have to set it up for a specific amount. It seems like you're asking more for an option in which the member can make a donation of whatever amount they want, at whatever time they want. Unfortunately, the vBulletin software won't let the member choose the amount they want to give.

But we could certainly look into setting up a non-vBulletin Paypal donation arrangement where members can make a donation in the amount of their choice, just because they want to give something back to Crochetville for what they've received from it. We'll wait and see if there's enough member interest in this option to make it worthwhile setting up. :)


One more question.... how many administrators are there? And how many moderators are there? I mentioned adding an administrator... are more mods needed?

The only administrators are Donna and me. As mentioned earlier, due to our new privacy policy and recommendations from the attorney who set up the LLC for us, we won't be adding any additional administrators. Most of the jobs we're doing need to continue to be done by us. However, we may eventually add some new moderators who can help with some aspects of forum management: deleting spam, moving threads to more appropriate folders, keeping up with what is posted in certain folders and notify an admin of any potential forum guideline violations, etc. But adding moderators to fulfill some of these tasks doesn't always have a major impact on reducing our workload. While it does remove some time demands, it adds others when we have to communicate regularly with the mods about all sorts of issues.

[AmyS]

I also love that the it is going to remain a free site. I am wondering if it would be worth assigning moderators for each section and maybe that would help relieve some of the stress off Amy and Donna. I know that there are several members including myself that would volunteer our time to moderate sections and give you guys a break from being here so much.

We really appreciate this, and at some point we will be calling on members to help out with various moderator functions. But as I mentioned in my reply to Jadyn05, adding moderators wouldn't actually end up reducing a significant amount of our time involved here! :)

[sammimag]

But we could certainly look into setting up a non-vBulletin Paypal donation arrangement where members can make a donation in the amount of their choice, just because they want to give something back to Crochetville for what they've received from it. We'll wait and see if there's enough member interest in this option to make it worthwhile setting up.

This is an option I would really like although I am very open to a subscription as well. Have you reinstated 'ville cafepress stuff to make money again?

At the very least I would really like you all not to have to have money coming out of your pocket not to mention maybe some in your pocket!

[Skysmom]

Thank you both for all your hard work...we can tell it is a "labor of love.":manyheart

I would definitely send a "donation"...count me in!

[Tampa Guy]

I think opening the pay pal process up again for those who would like to use it is something that should be done immediately.


I don’t use pay pal but would be happy to send a donation by mail.

In addition a once a year fund drive push if needed to complement the open pay pal process would add to meeting the Yearly Funding Goal.


I have been waiting for a chance to send a donation in since last year when the process was halted. How much is needed per month, year and where do we send the donations if we don’t want to use the Pay Pal process.

I have check book and http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3192/animoney1mr5.gif (http://imageshack.us) ready to go

[Empress Busy Bee]

The only administrators are Donna and me.
What happened to Julie? She's still listed as an admin.

I'm glad you're staying free, too. As mentioned while it seems like not much to most; it is for some. Also you'd have to go to a private board for it to be fair. I would not want to send in money and know that while people can't post, they still get to look around the board and get most of the same benifits like patterns, looking at finished work, and links to new sites.

I'm not really comfortable with admins being paid to run a board. That's just me. I know it's a huge job, really I do. I just don't think it should be a second or third income for anyone. If it's too much, step down and put someone else in place. That's how most other boards run.

Did you say no to the auction? I see why you would to etsy. However if it's put in the hands of a volunteer like last time, it'd be no trouble for admins.
And yes, what about setting the store so the board gets a share of the money again? You could add new things and/or designs. Have a design contest maybe to spark new interest in it. It's a way lurkers who may want to help, can without signing up.
What about specific memberships? Another board I go to you can post away for free. However if you buy one of two levels of membership you get a special title and a monthly gift. Now I'm not saying you have to give monthly gifts because theirs costs nothing but time to make and no postage. They charge $25 a year and $100 for a one time forever membership. You can adjust differently. Just a thought.

I agree with Tampa Guy about opening paypal to donations.

:)

[Shellybrook]

I personally, wouldn't think twice about a reasonable membership fee. HOWEVER...I probably wouldn't have registered initially if there were a fee.
Have you considered staggering levels of membership...as you have...where a members access to certain areas is granted based not only on time/# of posts, but certain areas that require a fee.

I think Paypal is a great idea! We do some ebaying, and basically leave the money we earn from ebay through paypal IN our Paypal account for future purchases....I'd drop a few bucks here every now and then without a doubt, I suspect if you gave us a simple method of paying you for your efforts many of us who can afford to help offset your expenses will.

I was also thinking...I know you mentioned Ads...I personally don't mind Ads as long as they are not in the form of "pop ups". You guys have the undivided attention of like a zillion crocheters here (not to mention any other crafts we do). I imagine that we could get significant dollars for unobtrusive advertisement to places that we all go anyway.

Thank you for all you do...and if I think of anything that will help to offset the expense of maintaining the 'ville...I will be sure to let you know.:hug

[AmyS]

This is an option I would really like although I am very open to a subscription as well. Have you reinstated 'ville cafepress stuff to make money again?

At the very least I would really like you all not to have to have money coming out of your pocket not to mention maybe some in your pocket!

No, we haven't increased prices on the Cafepress stuff yet. Honestly, I'm not sure we will, either. We don't want it to seem like we're out trying to grub up money from every possible source all of a sudden! :) (Don't worry, I don't think anybody has tried to imply they think we're doing that.)

You know, if members are helping us spread the word about the 'Ville and get more members by word of mouth "advertising," I'm not sure we should ask them to pay us extra (beyond actual item cost) to do so.

It might become necessary at some point, but I'd prefer to try other methods first. But we're definitely open to thinking about all suggestions our members make.

[AmyS]

I have check book and http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3192/animoney1mr5.gif (http://imageshack.us) ready to go

Tampa Guy, I think ALL those 20s shown in that little clip above would be a very good start! :lol

[AmyS]

I personally, wouldn't think twice about a reasonable membership fee. HOWEVER...I probably wouldn't have registered initially if there were a fee.
Have you considered staggering levels of membership...as you have...where a members access to certain areas is granted based not only on time/# of posts, but certain areas that require a fee.

Yes, this is something we considered, but we don't want to make any area of Crochetville accessible only if you pay us for the privilege. We like everything be open to everyone.

I was also thinking...I know you mentioned Ads...I personally don't mind Ads as long as they are not in the form of "pop ups". You guys have the undivided attention of like a zillion crocheters here (not to mention any other crafts we do). I imagine that we could get significant dollars for unobtrusive advertisement to places that we all go anyway.

Hey, that's something we didn't address. Thanks for bringing it to mind. Absolutely NO POP-UP ads. I hate them, and I have a feeling lots of other people hate them, too. So don't worry---you'll never see those here. If anybody wants to see anything like the type of ads we're considering, go check out the ads on the message boards at knitty.com. A banner ad at the top of the page, just under the Crochetville logo, just above all the forum stuff. No flashing, no animation. Just maybe a pretty picture of yarn, the company name, and if we're lucky, maybe the advertiser would even offer a special discount to our members!

[LaurieE]

I would like to thank Donna and Amy for all their hard work with this board and I'm sorry they've had to spend their own money to keep it going. I'm very thankful they're trying to keep this board free. My budget is also very tight so I would have to leave if it was fee based.

For those of us who weren't here when there were ads, is there any way to see how it would look with ads?

Have you considered contacting some of the fiber arts professors at the major research universities to see if they would be interested in hosting the Ville? I'm a moderator on the board my department has. Sadly, my department is not fiber arts related.

[AmyS]

What happened to Julie? She's still listed as an admin.

Did you say no to the auction? I see why you would to etsy. However if it's put in the hands of a volunteer like last time, it'd be no trouble for admins.


Julie is still officially listed as an administrator, but she's been so busy with her job and life that she hasn't had much time to spend here lately.

We haven't said no to an auction. But now that Crochetville has had to become an actual legal business, we'll have to look at an auction from a different perspective. We just don't know yet whether that is a feasible option.

[sammimag]

No, we haven't increased prices on the Cafepress stuff yet. Honestly, I'm not sure we will, either. We don't want it to seem like we're out trying to grub up money from every possible source all of a sudden! :) (Don't worry, I don't think anybody has tried to imply they think we're doing that.)

Overall my preference is straight out donation but I have eyed some 'ville stuff if a few dollars of profit to the 'ville to keep things running sounds fine to me! If the goal is to avoid a mandatory subscription fee on the 'ville then I think it would be fine to get $ from any source. I like having options.

[Reneva]

What about having another auction to buy things we make on here or howabout A Crochetville Etsy Shop where members donate their finished goods or original patterns, yarns, hooks, etc (everything must be brand new of course)..And all the proceeds go to Crochetville...
I'm just a newbie on the site, but I think Pumpkinmouse has a great idea! Everyone here is so creative, I think that store would turn into one of the sites I check everyday!

[AmyS]

If the goal is to avoid a mandatory subscription fee on the 'ville then I think it would be fine to get $ from any source. I like having options.

Just to clarify, the goal isn't to avoid a mandatory subscription fee. :) We will NEVER require anyone to pay for the privilege of visiting and posting here at Crochetville. We want to share the wonders of the 'Ville with everyone!

[cupcake]

Thanks Donna and Amy for pursuing all of this. I think the administration costs of a joining fee would outway the benefits and lose us some members. I suspect it would also be a pain from an international perspective. I recall recently a dicussions about a crochetville pattern book. At the time I remember thinking, (but not posting) what sorts of profits this might make and where would they go, and who manages al of this. I have some vague concept of a pattern library where some patterns are only accessible for a fee. With all the it techo stuff these days I believe a number of us would be happy to donate a pattern to something like this. I am also wondering if some of the swaps should have an annual fee. Only that it does show some committment and might reduce the number of swappers who disappear. I have no idea how many do this. I havent really thought this out in any detail.

Re the adds as long as they dont pop and are crochet related, while I dont like them, I can live with them. Sometimes it is nice to know what product is out there.

my thoughts only.

[sammimag]

I like cupcakes idea of a pattern library than members could buy from and get a pdf mailed to them. That would be much less work than an etsy shop selling items.

A handful of members could donate time to help with that.

[AmyS]

I like cupcakes idea of a pattern library than members could buy from and get a pdf mailed to them. That would be much less work than an etsy shop selling items.

A handful of members could donate time to help with that.

It would probably be easy enough to set up an automated system for download once payment was received, so any extra time involved in this type of system wouldn't really be a concern.

My concern with this idea is how would we compensate the person who donated the pattern? We can't expect them to give us their pattern for free. And we don't have any money to pay them a fair market price for their pattern, like they'd get from selling their pattern to a magazine or to be included in a book (like the SnB books, for example).

We wouldn't want to get in a situation where we have to keep track of numbers of patterns sold each month and issue commission checks and that sort of thing. Remember, Crochetville is now an LLC business, and we'll have all sorts of tax implications to consider when it comes to paying out money to others. (We'll have to file business tax returns with the IRS, so it would be very important to do everything exactly right.) Not to mention the amount of additional time it would take to keep up with all that stuff from a bookkeeping standpoint.

I hope people don't get upset if it seems like we're immediately down-playing certain suggestions or anything. But some things just might not work very well when we take into account all the tax and legal issues that might be involved.

[losingmymind2]

I personally hope we can find a way for you to run Crochetville on a donation basis, but I know that may not be realistic in the long run. Even a few dollars every few months would add up when multiplied by all the potential members donating.

[angelfire]

But we could certainly look into setting up a non-vBulletin Paypal donation arrangement where members can make a donation in the amount of their choice, just because they want to give something back to Crochetville for what they've received from it. We'll wait and see if there's enough member interest in this option to make it worthwhile setting up. :).

I would gladly donate as possible this way. I think whatever we can do to help is a wish of most members.

[minwifeof4boys]

my hubby is a member of christian guitar forum which is same type server as he pays maybe 10.00 a year but doesn't have to look at the ads... I for one wouldn't mind paying a fee each year... I would gladly get my money's worth no matter what the cost... if there is anything I can do to help let me know....

[JoBug]

Thanks to Donna and Amy for all their HARD work, and I am sure, sleepless nights going through this process, I am sure it all isn't easy, NOT only the work it takes to run this place but also the decisions you are facing during all of this. Of COURSE we do not live in a world where everyone is compleatly happy, as demonstrated everyday in life, but I have no doubt what so ever that both Donna and Amy are truley doing what would be the minimal obtrusive route for all the members, I know there are times when I could afford to pay, and then there are other times I am strapped for money in a big way. I just want to say you have my support, and my thanks for all you do, and the members here are all so great, just seeing the outreach and idea's to try and hlep, shows this is HOME here at the 'Ville :hug
my thoughts are now, geezzz, I best NOT be bugging Amy with PM's unless they are REALLY important, poor thing, must NEVER get any rest :manyheart

[Shell]

Amy and Donna, I am so grateful for the work you both put in. I am very saddened to hear it has become a personal financial burden for yourselves and the amout of time you put in is equal to a full time job. I do sympathise there as I recently finished running my mums toy store full time for a year unpaid. Not much incentive to go to work each morn! As I have never seen a show and tell post by either of you I am assuming you get very little time to enjoy our hobby other than moderate this board.

I like the idea of an "anytime any amount" paypal system. Many sites you visit have a link at the top "to support us and keep us running please donate to our paypal site" with a paypal button beside it. I would never have stopped by Crochetville if it were paid and I would never have found such a wonderful support network or made so many great friends. I am more than just a little pleased that you WILL be keeping this site free! If it were a possibility Crochetville would become fee based I might have just left as I know there is no way I could pay. If I had to pay for my internet connection I wouldn't even had the internet. Some people just dont realise how hard $25US is to come by. Those who have never struggled aren't expected to understand.

My concern with this idea is how would we compensate the person who donated the pattern? We can't expect them to give us their pattern for free. And we don't have any money to pay them a fair market price for their pattern, like they'd get from selling their pattern to a magazine or to be included in a book (like the SnB books, for example).
People host their patterns for free on Crochetville all the time. Some of these patterns would be easily added to a PDF book. I would happily donate a few patterns to a book for Crochetville and in doing so I KNOW and EXPECT no return. It would be optional and if you opted out of the hope to be paid then phooey to you!

There are places you must join to get any privledges at all. Say AuntB's patterns for example. She used to host them herself for free for all, but now you have to join a free Yahoo group to access them. Maybe some aspectsof the Ville can be similar, unless you are a member you don't have access. Talking about 11,000 members all the time is not very accurate when less than half that number are "active". What describes active and inactive in this place? Many people have signed up and have never even posted. I am not begrudging them their right to do so, just saying that quoting 11,000 isn't so accurate.

I am extremely pleased that you have spent time thinking about the ads. I don't even notice adds on Neopets.com anymore, only if they aren't relevant then I will report them (it's a G rated site and some ads recently weren't very G rated!). The one thing I really hate about Neopets banner ads is that they are gifs and on dial up they can really slow down page loads. It sounds as though Donna and Amy have already taken this into consideration as Amy has specifically said these ads will not be more than pictures. That suits me just fine. People new to the site with it having ads wont think anything of it, the rest of us can just adapt and move on! There are other sites out there of a similar basis to Crochetville so if we don'tlike Crochetville then go elsewhere. It's the same with anything in life. Don't complain, change it.

More mods to keep a check on language and moving things to more appropriate forums and deleting spam could be helpful. There isn't really any reason you'd need more communication with them unless a problem arose. You already email people about their reports and the like, this will become someone elses work.

Donna, Amy, I would NOT be upset for you to receive extra benefits for your time running Crochetville. You put in a lot and it is only fair you receive a small reward. I do agree with the Empress that there needs to come a time when you admit defeat and ask for help. I realise with becoming a business and all the other legalities you mentioned this wont be EASY, but it MUST be possible. Heaven forbid one of you got ill, someone would need to step up and take your place, so there is always a fall out option.

I too will be more careful about pm'ing Amy and the like. I too took for granted the wonderful forum I have found. I have never joined another forum before Crochetville and this has become "home" now. If it isn't crochet related I am free to talk in the off topic. Sometimes I think off topic kinda rules this place! But it's great. It keeps us coming back and makes us the family we are. I love this place and I am just so happy you are considering all aspects and best of all, not just walking away when the going gets tough! A big hooray to you both.

[RitaK]

I haven't been a member for long, but I value this forum greatly. I'm glad that you understand that even $15 to $25 dollars would be a hardship for some, especially those of us on a fixed income. If the ads can keep the forum going, I can live with them. If my financial situation changes in the future, I can opt for a paid membership. Thank you, thank you for all your hard work.
Rita K.
Dayton, OH

[FlowerPower06]

I absolutely LOVE :hug this site and am so grateful to have found it! This place and all the terrific folks here have sparked a regenerated interest in crochet for me! I want the 'Ville to be around forever!

Idea.....I also frequent another Community and they offer becoming a "Friend of...." for a small yearly donation. For your donation you get a special little icon by your avatar that shows you are a financial supporter and "Friend" of the site, you get special access to a "Friends Only" thread where only "Friends" can read posts and share posts about the site. It is broken down into donation amounts of like 10,15,25 dollars a year...can't remember exactly how it is there..... When your time is almost up you receive an email asking if you would like to donate to be a "Friend of...." again for another year.

If you did something like this here at the 'Ville, I would defintely contribute yearly! It's more than worth it for all the ideas, patterns, help and fellowship offered here!! :manyheart

[luckybmr]

A big THANK YOU from me also. I have never joined anything on the internet before Crochetville. I find everyone here warm and welcoming, helpful and so much fun.

I agree with others that if I would have had to pay a fee to join, I probably wouldn't have. However, I'm with TampaGuy - where do I send the money? I would be happy to donate to help out with the finances.

I love Donna's(FlowerPower06) idea of the "Friends of". Just a general announcement about a fund drive should generate some money for the cause.

A lot of the other ideas are great also.

I enjoy coming here, I do post, I have joined a swap and want to join another, I have RAOK'd and been RAOK'd, I haven't posted anything I have made as I still can't find that darn camera book to get the pictures to show! :blush What I am saying is the "I" is really "we" for all of us - we think of this as family and we don't want family to suffer financially if we can help.

I know you will make the best decisions for the forum and will continue to make this a fun place to visit. A big round of applause to the administrators and moderators who make this such a nice place! :clap :clap :clap :clap

[orangetulipgarden]

I'd also be happy to make a donation through Paypal or some other method. I think those who are willing and able to contribute should be allowed to help out with the costs. It's been such a great thing for me personally and I feel like I need to give back in some way.

[dilyca2006]

I am with Terry. I guess I took the free for granted also.
I have really enjoyed my time here. I, for one, would not be able to be here if there was a membership fee.
Sure, adds can be distracting, but, as someone who does not always have extra $$$$$ I can wade through adds to get to what I want to enjoy.
I am just thankful that this site is here and I found it!!

[mizduck]

I'd be happy to donate as well. I know I speak for many when I say the 'ville is much more than a forum to me!:manyheart It's wonderful of you guys to be so kind as to take the burden of running and paying for everything, but please, at least let us volunteer money to help defray your costs! We're some people that just love to help!:D I agree it would be rough for everyone to pay a membership. I, of course, don't have money set aside for this, but I'd much rather give it to you guys than squander it somewhere else, like I know I would.


Basically, I just love this place and will help anyway I can....

[AmyS]

T
my thoughts are now, geezzz, I best NOT be bugging Amy with PM's unless they are REALLY important, poor thing, must NEVER get any rest :manyheart

Hey, I never mind getting PMs from any member! :) That's part of what I'm here for as an admin. I also love talking with all our members.

However, once we add some mods to various areas, then some of the questions I get could be handled by mods. Questions like "Should I post in this folder or that folder?" "How do I start a new thread?"

Some questions, like checking in advance with whether a post is okay to post in respect to our guidelines, would still come to me.

But please don't ever worry about sending me a PM. I type really, really, really fast, so at least I don't have to hunt and peck to write out my answer! :lol

[MrsCrochetPants]

I just want to say "Thank You" to Amy & Donna.

I really love Crochetville and I would be more than happy to donate money through PayPal, or donate a Handmade item for an Auction, If I was talented enough to make my own patterns ( I wouldn't have to buy so many) I would gladly donate them to an eBook.

It's really great to come to a board full of Crocheters just like me! It is like a family. Who doesn't like to get complimented on their work?

The Google ads I'm seeing now, really aren't that bad, they're really not that distracting.

You gotta do what you gotta do!

Thanks Again for a great place!

[BonnieCrochets]

Thanks Amy and Donna for all of your work!
I would be very happy to donate via paypal or whatever way you guys come up with. Thanks again!

[Suebee42]

The one forum that I run (with another admin who handles all the tech stuff, and the money part... I really should send some money his way... if only I HAD it to send *sigh*) has affiliations set up with various online stores, for commission. Amazon.com is one of them. When people access Amazon via a link on the forum, the forum gets a percentage of that sale. If everyone remembers to do it, it adds up!

http://www.goosemoose.com/

It's the "Pet Stores" link across the top, under the logo.

[diamond]

I like the idea of an "anytime any amount" paypal system. Many sites you visit have a link at the top "to support us and keep us running please donate to our paypal site" with a paypal button beside it.

We used to have a place here at Crochetville where we could donate monies. I donated to help keep it running. It was at the same time as the last fund-raising auction. We don't still have that???

I like most of the ideas that others have come up. The fund-raising auction worked well before and I know it will again. After all, we didn't have 10,000 members & counting. Not even half that! Donations were sent to one location, when the auction ended all items were shipped from that location. Everything was auctioned off, nothing was left. Some of the persons donating (I for one) even sent along a few dollars for shipping expenses as afghans and larger items can get expensive to ship. We would get 'teasers' of what would be auctioned. It added to the excitement.

CafePress has been a slow income generator, I can assume, but every little bit helps. More items could be added to it and a slight increase in cost wouldn't hurt.

I like the idea of donating and being recognized with a small icon. That would be easy to do without being too time-consuming.

The idea of selling members patterns is OK but I think that might become time-consuming and there is the issue of who would own the copyright? What if a designer had that same pattern on their blog or web sight for free, but here they had it for sale? Why would anyone want to pay for something that they could get for free? (Just a thought...)

The ads don't bother me. I've been noticing the Google ads at the bottom of the threads already and at first I didn't even notice them. If it helps with the cost of running Crochetville, then I say keep them.

Donna & Amy, you've are and have been doing a great job. I hope you know how much you both are appreciated here. I hope you never feel 'taken for granted'.

Whatever you decide to do....I'm in for the long-run.

[Phoenix]

Now that you bring it up, I don't know of many people who actually work 20-40 hours a week for free, so I have to say the idea of being compensated for all the work hours we spend here (as opposed to the hours spent here just for fun just like everyone else) certainly has an appeal! :) But I think the time at which Crochetville could ever potentially offer either Donna or me a living wage is quite a long time off!

First off, I do love crochetville, and I really appreciate the work that goes into it! And I know you were talking about a hopeful future that's a long way off when referring to a living wage.

But, not to seem rude, but the reason crochetville is awesome is because of everything that all the members put into it. The advice, the friendship, the free help and the eye-candy that is other people's finished work...that's what keeps me coming back. And that content is provided by members for free.

I'm not saying you guys should gladly slave away for our sake for no compensation...but that talk of compensation makes me nervous unless something drastically changes about how things work. I'm afraid that if people knew that someone was making money of this, they'd be less likely to put in their time, talent etc for free.

Again, I don't mean this to be rude, I'm just a very cautious type when it comes to stuff like this. I'm sure something can be worked out that is good for everyone!

[RoseRed]

I really like it here at the 'ville. I'm sure that whatever you guys decide to do will be fine. If the worst that we have to deal with is a post size google ad before the quick reply box - that's not too bad.

Congrats!

[angieInCA]

Well here is my 2 cents worth!

I love the 'Ville! I just found it in Sept and to tell the truth it came into my life when I really needed to find a new focus.

I would gladly donate or pay an annual fee for the privlege to view and post here.

BTW I love the ads. I appreciate the opportunity to find new leads for yarn, patterns and just anything I might be looking for. I do have one question though, do they just pay to advertise or do you get credit for hits from your links?

[AmyS]

BTW I love the ads. I appreciate the opportunity to find new leads for yarn, patterns and just anything I might be looking for. I do have one question though, do they just pay to advertise or do you get credit for hits from your links?

For Google ads, we get paid by Google based on the number of times people click on the ad links. Google has very strict rules that mean Donna and I are not allowed to click on any of those links in an attempt to artificially inflate our click-thru rates. Lots of sites and blogs use the Google AdSense program. Anybody can find more information on the Google site (http://www.google.com/adsense)about how the program works.

Once we get banner ads in place, the advertiser will pay strictly for placing the ad on our site. Our revenue from banner ads will not be affected by click-thru rates. Although, if nobody ever clicks on any of those ads, advertisers will stop advertising with us! :)

We don't have any control of the ads Google serves up to us, but we will be able to control the banner ads by being very selective of which ads we will accept from advertisers. We hope that we'll be able to encourage banner advertisers to offer special discounts to our members. We all love opportunities for special discounts that let us stretch our yarn purchase dollars further!

As far as loving the ads, I already saw one that I had to go check out the website! Of course, I had to type the URL directly into my browser, since I can't click on the link in the ad! :)

[thecrochetdude]

Wow, y'all are amazing!! Congrats on all your success and thanks for all your hard work!! :woo

:bounce

[birdlady1]

Now, the idea of an optional membership fee/donation which would mean you wouldn't see ads is a definite possibility!

Since I'm not a crocheting addict, I probably would not join if a membership fee were levied, minimal as it might be. A voluntary donation would be something I'd consider, if the funds were used to help defray costs for mailing charitable items, such as was recently done for the Steve Irwin family or Project Linus etc.

[Tiga]

I think doing like fark.com does, and having a "Total Crochetville", with no ads for a fee, is totally the way to go.

Fark charges $5 per month, either on a one month, 6 month or 12 month basis, automatically renewable, through paypal.

Me, I won't mind ads so much as long as they are crochet related!

[jadyn05]

First off, I do love crochetville, and I really appreciate the work that goes into it! And I know you were talking about a hopeful future that's a long way off when referring to a living wage.

But, not to seem rude, but the reason crochetville is awesome is because of everything that all the members put into it. The advice, the friendship, the free help and the eye-candy that is other people's finished work...that's what keeps me coming back. And that content is provided by members for free.

I'm not saying you guys should gladly slave away for our sake for no compensation...but that talk of compensation makes me nervous unless something drastically changes about how things work. I'm afraid that if people knew that someone was making money of this, they'd be less likely to put in their time, talent etc for free.

Again, I don't mean this to be rude, I'm just a very cautious type when it comes to stuff like this. I'm sure something can be worked out that is good for everyone!


I'm pretty sure that Amy wasn't taking credit for all the great things here on the ville. I think she's talking about the organizing, and admin stuff that is only done by her and donna. Also, I don't think they want to have this be something that pays all their bills, I'd be leary too. However, previously mentioned, she and Donna have put hundreds of dollars of their own money into keeping this place going. And a forum where more than 5,000 people come and talk and enjoy shouldn't be sustained by 2 people. I'm sure that Amy and Donna would pleased if they just simply didn't have to use their own money to keep everything going. And that's the brainstorming right? Coming up with feasible ideas to that would result in the ville not being a money sieve for the 2 of them.

[sakurasaku]

I just want to thank Amy, Donna, and all the mods for keeping this place running smoothly. I can't even begin to imagine the kind of work put into it. I know I mostly take it for granted that the 'ville is here and free. Personally, I don't mind the ads, but I wouldn't mind paying a membership fee if it came to that.

Please keep up the good work and thank you for taking measures to continue this forum.

[needlesandpinza]

you know....
on another board (not crochet related) in the For Sale/ Trade/ Swap..etc thread you only can post your items for sale IF part of the proceeds are given back to the boards. a type of advertising fee.

[Hounddog]

I really don't mind the ads on forums they are usually tasteful and a lot of them pertain to the subject being discussed. Also a lot of forums insist on participation, active participation and I think that might be good here too. I have scanned the memberlist and a lot of members have never posted a reply or started any threads. What gives? Just a thought but I would never join any forum where I have to pay a fee.

[AmyS]

Also a lot of forums insist on participation, active participation and I think that might be good here too. I have scanned the memberlist and a lot of members have never posted a reply or started any threads. What gives?

I don't think we want to insist on active participation by means of posting here. While that option may work for other communities, that's not what we want to foster here at Crochetville. We have many members who are more comfortable visiting regularly but posting rarely or never. That's perfectly fine with us. Plus we have hundreds and hundreds of guest visitors each day. That's fine, too.

Plain and simple, we don't want to REQUIRE anyone to do anything by virtue of their membership here. This community is all about sharing because our members want to, and we want it to stay that way. :)

[leftiecrochetchick]

I wondered why there were ads at the bottom. I thought my computer was acting up again.

I have to say for myself that I did not realize how much time/energy/money goes into something that I'm sure alot of us here take for granted.

AmyS and Donna I know personally that I appreciate everything you do for this place and all the hard work you two share. Also, what great people you are for bringing this to our attention. You could of just talk amongst yourselves and just said "Alright to be a member here you have to pay $25 or else your banned :devil ".

It is definetly something that alot of us have to think of and I think that some would only be able to afford $5 and others a greater amount but that each and every donation would be greatly appreciated by you gals. :yes I know that for me personally right now at this moment I would only be able to contribute $5 because my hubby is laid off (for the 4th week in a row :angry , ok so that is a different story). But when things pick back up for us I would be able to donate a greater amount.

My Dad always taught me "It's not how much or how little you give, just as long as you give."

I absolutely LOVE :manyheart it here and I know that you gals dont want to do this but think of it this way. How many people across the WORLD have come here to share, find, or question about a project. You gals have reached so many here in just a matter of 2 years. I applaude you :clap and all your hard work.

[NexStitch]

I like the concept of the tip jar as well as avdvertising that's relevent to crochet. I think a combo of those could be very beneficial in off-setting the costs. I would consider be an advertiser.

I think for those people who are concerned about alternate advertising, I'd check out Crochet Pattern Central. Rachel has strict rules for ads (non-flashing, certain sizes, etc). I think it works well there and could work well here. I also think Crochet Me is another site that has tasteful advertising, again, relevant to crochet. I can take myself out of the role of business owner when I say I don't mind crochet-related advertising. When I go to Crazy Aunt Purl's site or the ones I already mentioned, I'm always looking to see what other cool crochet stuff people are putting out there. This includes new yarns from other stores, etc. It doesn't bother me.

Whatever you ladies decide, I'm sure you'll make the best decision for everyone.

[darncat]

Wow, this one is a toughy. A few days ago I told my hubby that if CV went to a pay for site, I would pay because I love it so much.
A few thoughts... I go to another site that is totaly free but you see banners and ads. They have a premium package where you pay to have it ad free. I would be MORE than willing to pay to go ad free, but still have the option open for others to have a standard package. I also like the idea of a donation spot for others who can chip in.
The big thing.. The pdf patterns to sell.
I say GO FOR IT!!! I have posted 1 free pattern on this site and don't expect a single penny from it. I have 3 more just waiting to be typed up for testing and one almost finished. I have every intention of posting them here FOR FREE!!! If we as a group are willing to give those patterns to anyone to have why not just slide a couple CV's way. I would still not expect any money from the pattens. If a few of us get together and send you our patterns for the support of CV, I think that would be a good thing. People will get patterns and CV will get a little money to help out. When it was said that a book might be in the works, my head started to fill with ideas. I was thinking what can I do to help. I still think that way.
I guess I took for granted all the hard work and money it takes to run this group. After reading this thread I'll never forget again.
Amy and Donna, Thank you so much for all of your hard work!!:hug

[stormyautumn]

Yes, we the members make this site great, but it would be nothing without the atmosphere. IT is watched over constantly to make sure that it stays up to standards. Without the watchful eyes and hard work behind the scenes, who knows what it would be like. I have seen many groups that have died out because they were not tended to. Arguments, spammer, and all kinds of things can happen to ruin a perfectly wonderful group.

I, for one, believe this place should pay for itself and also a little for you ladies doing all the hard work. There is no reason you two should be paying out of pocket for what we all enjoy!!!

Why did you not want to increase the price on the Cafepress items to get a little funding that way ( sorry if I missed this answer earlier)?
I would also make a donation.

Thank you so much for showing us a little about the inner workings. I know I have taken it for granted, and I certainly won't now. I appreciate this wonderful community all the more!!
While the advertising is here, I will be sure to click whenever I can to help out! Stormy

[AmyS]

Why did you not want to increase the price on the Cafepress items to get a little funding that way ( sorry if I missed this answer earlier)?


Well, we haven't definitely ruled that out as a possibility. But this is a personal pet peeve of mine.

For example, clothing items that have logos plastered all over them, basically giving free advertising to the company that makes them. If I'm wearing that garment and giving the company free advertising, I don't like paying for the privilege of doing their advertising. I think I should be able to purchase items that are doing their advertising for them at a discount. But that's just me. Give me an incentive to do their advertising by offering me a lower price than for their regular products.

So I personally have a hard time with the concept that Crochetville members should purchase our Cafepress items at a price that gives money to us, when they're doing us a service by letting others know that we exist.

And to think I actually have a business degree! According to that, I should be heartily in favor of any idea that will bring us even one additional penny of revenue! :)

[busymomof7]

For Google ads, we get paid by Google based on the number of times people click on the ad links. ..

Once we get banner ads in place, the advertiser will pay strictly for placing the ad on our site. Our revenue from banner ads will not be affected by click-thru rates. Although, if nobody ever clicks on any of those ads, advertisers will stop advertising with us! :)


Well, if clicking on a little ad can help generate some $$$ for the 'Ville, I say, :clap

Personally, I don't mind the ads as long as they are unobtrusive and crochet related. Not all advertising is evil. If someone (like internet yarn shops) has the ability to fill a need that I have (like yarn, yarn, and more yarn) then advertising here is one way for those businesses to let me know they exist. Also, there may even be some members here at the 'Ville who would be interested in placing an ad for their own business. We have some wonderfully creative members here, some with crochet-related businesses.

I am astounded to learn that you administrators do all that you do, give the number of hours you give and have to spend your own money as well! At the very least, Crochetville needs to be self-supporting, and I, for one, would never begrudge you compensation for all your time and efforts!!! I would never EVER expect someone else to give 20-40+ hours a week of their life AND their own money so that I could reap the benefits for free. (Well, okay, maybe my husband, but that's different! :lol)

I am glad that Crochetville is free, but I would not mind if some aspects of it required fees (like the swaps, etc). However, I think having the ads and accepting donations are probably a better way to handle things. I'm all for any other form of fund-raiser as long as it does not create additional work for the administrators.

So there is my 2 cents worth.

[stormyautumn]

I understand what you mean, and I applaud you for your conviction despite your training. It just goes to show how much you love this place.

On the other hand those are usually companies that are making money already. We Villers want to advertise and spread the word about this place because we love it, and because we are proud to wear or use something that reminds us of this place. And it gives us the ability to talk about it even more. It is not like you are trying to advertise to make more money for yourselves, only to support the forum and keep it going (without having to dig into your own pocket, Amy!).

I guess I can see it both ways. I am not trying to change your mind though. I understand your feelings about free advertising.

Well, we haven't definitely ruled that out as a possibility. But this is a personal pet peeve of mine.

For example, clothing items that have logos plastered all over them, basically giving free advertising to the company that makes them. If I'm wearing that garment and giving the company free advertising, I don't like paying for the privilege of doing their advertising. I think I should be able to purchase items that are doing their advertising for them at a discount. But that's just me. Give me an incentive to do their advertising by offering me a lower price than for their regular products.

So I personally have a hard time with the concept that Crochetville members should purchase our Cafepress items at a price that gives money to us, when they're doing us a service by letting others know that we exist.

And to think I actually have a business degree! According to that, I should be heartily in favor of any idea that will bring us even one additional penny of revenue! :)

[RitaK]

Now I am really of two minds. On one hand, I don't think I would mind carefully chosen ads. On the other hand, I didn't realize the tremendous amount of time and money that went into running this forum. When people started talking about $15 and $20 dollars for membership, it scared me. But someone mentioned $10 dollars, and I think I could do that. I kind of like that being a donation rather than a requirement. It would help to keep the friendly helpful tone of the forum.
A relatively new member,
Rita K.
Dayton, OH

[AmyS]

On the other hand those are usually companies that are making money already. We Villers want to advertise and spread the word about this place because we love it, and because we are proud to wear or use something that reminds us of this place. And it gives us the ability to talk about it even more. It is not like you are trying to advertise to make more money for yourselves, only to support the forum and keep it going (without having to dig into your own pocket, Amy!).

Well, maybe I'm going to have to rethink my position on this one! :)

[Roli]

Okay, now that I've read EVERY reply, I'd like to say that I am also grateful for all the time and dedication that Amy and Donna offer to this forum. This has been a fun place to be for me from day 1 and I enjoy visiting almost every day,

Am I the only one who likes the banner ads? I'm always extremely interested to see what's new on the crochet front and enjoy looking at any sites that offer patterns or yarns. Just like the ads in Interweave Crochet, I know I won't be able to resist checking out those websites! I always click on the ads on CPC. :yes As far as I'm concerned, placing ads on Crochetville will simply be another great resource for me.

I also like the idea of donations through PayPal and hope that this can be implemented soon to help defray some of the costs Donna and Amy have incurred in the past.

[RachelG]

I've followed this thread with great interest.

There are many, many, many behind the scenes things for you two to consider (including what's easily legally, what's too much red tape) but I'll chime in with what I think:

If donations aren't too much red tape, I'd accept them. Crochetvillers would donate. (Not a tenth of them, not a hundredth of them...but even very small numbers add up.)

A membership fee in exchange for no banner ads? Sounds good.

Banner ads and free membership? No problem. I'm torn about ads. I realize why they're there (and have clicked on two Google ads in the past two days on Crochetville, just to check out the advertised sites, although usually I completely ignore Google ads). Now, I do like the idea of tasteful ads like what I try to have on CPC. :)

I'll probably think of more later but that's it for now.

[Mom w/a Motif]

I don't mind the ads. I try to be a *go-with-the-flow* type person most of the time. If I click on one or two each time I come here and it will help, hey I can do that! :P I also think the paypal button is a good thing, too. I don't *like* the idea of charging more for the Crochetville CafePress items, but... if it helps. :shrug

:manyheart From a member who loves this place!! :manyheart

Tina

[cupcake]

I have never understood the google adds. Do you generate income every time someone clicks on them?

[RachelG]

I have never understood the google adds. Do you generate income every time someone clicks on them?

Yes. Not much (one or two cents? it has been awhile since I read up on them).

[Mom w/a Motif]

Cupcake here is the post that tells how that works. (I didn't know either.) :think

For Google ads, we get paid by Google based on the number of times people click on the ad links. Google has very strict rules that mean Donna and I are not allowed to click on any of those links in an attempt to artificially inflate our click-thru rates. Lots of sites and blogs use the Google AdSense program. Anybody can find more information on the Google site (http://www.google.com/adsense)about how the program works.

Once we get banner ads in place, the advertiser will pay strictly for placing the ad on our site. Our revenue from banner ads will not be affected by click-thru rates. Although, if nobody ever clicks on any of those ads, advertisers will stop advertising with us! :)

We don't have any control of the ads Google serves up to us, but we will be able to control the banner ads by being very selective of which ads we will accept from advertisers. We hope that we'll be able to encourage banner advertisers to offer special discounts to our members. We all love opportunities for special discounts that let us stretch our yarn purchase dollars further!

[Katchkan]

I have read all the posts so far with interest. Personally I hope you are able to come up with a way that keeps the ads off the board or at least make it so those of us that do not want to see them don't have too.
To me that will change the whole feel of the place. Crochetville has always been a place that supports Crochet as a whole and has never shown any leanings in any direction. I throughly realize that you will just be accepting paid ads to generate income, but it sets a whole different tone to the place when you add the ads.
You had best add the donatition button so I can add my 2 cent worth, as I am most unlikely to ever click on one of the google ads. I come here to share and visit. Not to shop. That's just me. I will try my best to ignore them, let alone use them. Again I am talking about my personal outlook on the whole thing. I know myself. I am more than willing to add my support, just not in that manner....
I realize you must do something to cover your operating expenses. I certainly can understand that. None of us want to derive our pleasure at your expense. I just hope you can do so without changing what Crochetville is and has become.

[123mama]

Well what ever you do I will stay here.lol But really I think donations are the way to go. If everyone did ten dollars I think that would be great. I am sure most people can save that in a year.A lot cheaper than buying books for patterns.

Also I loved the auction but that is a lot of work for someone. I loved the purse I got from Kathy for my grand daughter.

sondra

But I dont do paypal so would have to send mo.

[nucki]

Okay, now that I've spent the last 2 hours going through every post in this thread (yes, I'm totally serious! :lol), I'll chime in too.

Add me to the list of people who just didn't realize the amount of time and dedication it takes the two of you to keep this place running. I had NO idea you guys were basically working a second JOB! I would totally be in favor of you guys getting SOME sort of compensation for your time and effort. I think it would take a LOT of advertisers and probably a mandatory subscription fee for everyone in order for the two of you to get a second "income" from the 'Ville. But I would have absolutely no problem knowing that if nothing else, you're getting compensated for all the out-of-pocket you've put into this place.

If you'd asked me last month if I would be willing to pay a mandatory subscription fee, I probably would have said no. But my financial situation has changed drastically in the past month, so today it would be a yes. But I totally understand (and agree with) your reasons for not wanting it to become MANDATORY. However, if there were a little "please donate to help keep us running" button I could click on, I would happily click a few times a year (especially knowing that my £££s would generate more $$$s!!! :yes). So I have to totally support THAT idea.

I understand the complications and ramifications having an etsy shop or auction could possibly cause, but if it were do-able, I would have to support that as well. I like the idea of having a volunteer do it at a central location, as long as that particular volunteer understood that they're not going to be compensated for their time. That would kind of defeat the whole purpose. But again, if it were do-able, I would totally support not only the idea, but the thing itself (in other words, I'd donate something to the cause!).

I had a question, though. I just bought a Crochetville tote bag from Cafe Press (it just got here on Thursday). Am I understanding this correctly - the 'Ville doesn't get ANY money from my purchase? For $12, I figured it wouldn't be MUCH, but I seriously thought that me buying it was helping the 'Ville out, even if it was in a really small way.

Whatever you guys decide to do, I think the majority of us are behind you 100%, especially now that we realize the full extent of what's going on behind the scenes. And I'm definitely one of them! :yes :ghug

[sunnywolfgar]

Thank--you :ty all for all the work --hours--money you all have put into this beautuiful site. :bow ...
I come here :compute several times a day cause this crochet is so big it takes me a while to go thru some a while and longer .... so in between breaks ,,crocheting, cleaning ,bordom,,, house duties,, etc I am here ...Then other times I am here for hours reading thru it all.:compute lol......

I have enjoyed the crochetiers :hook ,, laughter :laughroll ,,patterns , looking at other crochetiers crochet projects :photo ,, and the help I have given to many people, etc...I love CROCHETVILLE :manyheart ~~~

I just got done thru reading all the post here...A Paypal Button is a very good idea :idea --choice and who don't have Paypal can send in m-o...Yes there are alot of people who cannot afford $25.00 a year but why not $5.00 or $10.00 --or $15.00 a year...Thats afforable....and then have the auctins back..if needed.... You had mention 11,000 members? Wouldn't that be enough???

wow ~~~~I didn't know :no there was that many here.....

We have :yes to keep CROCHETVILLE ..... :day

[Chiscrochetcrazy]

Ok first off I'm not a cheapskate but paying to be here is just odd to me when you can go elsewhere for free maybe those other places aren't nearly as great but free is free. I think giving people the option to donate is much better :) Also I love the idea of the auctions again I can see a Jimbo hook being acutioned off :lol & they're are some very talented people whos things I would love to have the option of buying for a good cause. As far as the adds go I have no problem with them I have 3 teenagers 3 chihuahuas 2 guys in the house that play guitar I'm great at ignoring things :lol Plus I have actually found some adds to be useful on other forums. If it does go pay maybe I would do $5 or $10 but more than that I'd probably not do.

[mpmuskie]

I just wanted to say that I have noticed the ads here already, and I think they are very tastefully done. I am very glad that they aren't changing the layout very much. I would also be very willing to donate to this site, whether it took away the ads or not. I do understand that some are not able to do this. If this had happened even a year ago, I would have been one of those that couldn't afford 25 a year. I don't really mind the ads, as long as they stay unobtrusive.
Thank you Amy and Donna for everything you have done for this great community.

[jadyn05]

with the google ads don't you also get $$$ for page impressions as well (as in when people view the ad)??? I have adsense on my blog, b/c I was interested in how it works. And to date I've never had anyone click the ads (granted they blend in at the bottom, i'm not sure people notice it's there :lol), and I've made a whopping $0.67. I'm not bounding to the bank, but was wondering does it work that way with the ads here on the ville too?

[JaneMarcy]

Wow, I had no idea what went into running the ville in terms of work and money. I love it here and usually visit several times a day. Thank you, thank you, thank you Amy and Donna for all your hard work. :cheer

Thankfully, I am in a position to make a donation or pay a membership fee and would :heart :heart :heart to help out in some way. Whatever you decide, you will have my support.

[AmyS]

with the google ads don't you also get $$$ for page impressions as well (as in when people view the ad)??? I have adsense on my blog, b/c I was interested in how it works. And to date I've never had anyone click the ads (granted they blend in at the bottom, i'm not sure people notice it's there :lol), and I've made a whopping $0.67. I'm not bounding to the bank, but was wondering does it work that way with the ads here on the ville too?

The Google AdSense program works the same for anyone who signs up for it. Anybody who wants more details about how the program works, just go to the AdSense (http://www.google.com/adsense)page and you can read through all the details of their program policies.

[Shell]

So i figure clicking a Google ad or two will help the ville and go a clickin. I was horrified to have Crochetville vanish before my eyes to be taken to the new site :cry is it possible to make them come up in a new window? my browser is set to do this, so it's obviously not something I can change

[Donna]

is it possible to make them come up in a new window?
That would be against Google AdSense policy. Edited to clarify: It would be against Google AdSense policy for us to modify the AdSense code so that the ads pop up in a new window. Sorry about that!

[Shell]

good on Google *hmph*

[CrochetinClara]

First-Thank you Amy and Donna :hug for ALL YOUR HARD WORK!!!
Second-No matter what you all decide, free or fee...I'm not going anywhere! I'd easily pay a fee to use the site!!

[busymomof7]

So i figure clicking a Google ad or two will help the ville and go a clickin. I was horrified to have Crochetville vanish before my eyes to be taken to the new site :cry is it possible to make them come up in a new window? my browser is set to do this, so it's obviously not something I can change


I don't know about all web browsers, but in Mozilla and Explorer (and I am pretty certain Netscape too), if you right click on a link, a small menu pops up. A few of the options are "Open link in new window" and "Open link in new tab." Then you can left click on one of those options. Generally, I prefer the "tab" option because then I have tabs running across the top of my screen for each different site I am visiting and I can click back and forth from one to the other.

Here is a quick lesson on windows and tabs for those who don't know the difference. When you open your web browser you open a new window and in most browsers a little button will show up along the bottom of your screen indicating the web page that window open to. You can open multiple windows, and each one will have a new button on the bottom of your screen. You just click on each button to navigate from one window to another. Now, when you are in a window, you can also open multiple tabs within that window. (You can open a new tab anytime by pressing "control" and "T" at the same time.) Each tab will appear across the top of your screen. You can go from one page to another just by clicking on each tab. So, in theory, if you like to mega-multi-task, you could have several windows open and within each window, you could have several tabs open. Then you could hop back and forth from one to the other.

One precaution though: if you open several tabs and you decide you want to close just one of those tabs, do NOT click on the red X in the uppermost right-hand corner of your screen. That X is there to close the window and it will close ALL the tabs you have open in that window. To close just one tab, you will want to click on the smaller red X (or in Explorer, it is black) that is in the upper right-hand corner of that tab (you can see it just an inch or so below the bigger red X in the uppermost right hand corner of your screen.)

Anyway, I hope this helps a little and I hope I haven't totally confused you!! :think

[busymomof7]

Oh, and about PAYPAL...you do not have to have a Paypal account to make a payment via Paypal!! I use Paypal on my website and customers can use their VISA, Mastercard, Discover, American Express or E-Check to pay me. The customer does not have to have their own Paypal account. Paypal will process their credit card payment and deposit it into my Paypal account -- no problem! :yay So, if Crochetville had a Paypal account for donations, the only folks who would have to send a money order would be those who do not use credit cards. :hook

And add me to that list of folks who would happily contribute a donation to help keep the 'Ville running smoothly!!

[Adreeyen]

As a long time 'Ville browser, lurker, and finally poster, I remember the good ol' days of the ads everywhere.

On EzBoard, there was the option of becoming a supporter where you wouldn't get the ads and on some boards there were forums that only supporters could access. It was (and still is) $12US a year. It's a small fee, but it makes an online experience so much better. There was also the option of purchasing supporter for others in either 6-month or 12-month increments.

I am on a limited income, but some things are just important enough to pay for. I would do it even if there weren't any perks besides no-ads

[crochetqueen]

Due to a few things out of my control I haven't been around lately but I just wanted to give my 2 cents worth on this. As some of you know I was the longtime editor for Bellaonline crochet, knitting, and Rug making as well as the owner of www.medidit.com (http://www.medidit.com), www.spottedtailgate.com (http://www.spottedtailgate.com) and the new www.hookyarnandneedles.com (http://www.hookyarnandneedles.com) In all this time I was never compensated but I still did it. Yes there is expense that comes out of your pocket but now that Crochetville is growing very large I completely understand the need to do google ads as well as other ads. I have EVERY confidence that the Crochetville administrators will make the ads very tasteful. This is about the best way to help pay for upkeep of the site. I have had to do the very same thing on one of my sites. Just like Crochetville, I had to make a decision do I just shut it down or do I add a few ads. I decided to do the ads. Donna and Amy thanks so much for all of your hard work, no matter what you decide I too will still be coming here giving my 2 cents worth :devil

[Bellisima]

First off, I'd like to say "thank you" to Amy & Donna for making this board what it is - you guys do a terrific job & really make it a great place to be. You two are really unsung heroes. There's not too many forums that I'm aware that are THIS popular yet this well moderated. I may not always agree with your decisions but I know they always come with the best interests of all members considered.
I for one would gladly pay a "premum membership fee" of $25-$50 annually. I had been a member of recipezaar and they did something similar over there. Anyone could become a member free of charge, could post recipes, review them, participate in forums, etc etc. Premium memberships, though, got neat little "extras" - custom avatars, multiple cookbooks, ability to view larger photos, no ads, etc etc. It was a great concept & worked very well.
Good luck with whatever is decided ...and thanks for opening up this topic for discussion. I'm glad you value our opinions :)

[Phoenix]

Just wanted to clarify-

I posted my misgivings earlier about talk of admins getting salaries off the site. But I am totally in favour of making Crochetville self-sufficient and taking the burden off donna any amy. I don't think that anyone should be pouring their money into this site, when it must be capable of sustaining itself. And if it can pay them back for some of their time investment all the better. I just wanted to throw in the devil's advocate voice in favour of caution, I guess. I hope nobody misunderstood that I was saying that crochetville shouldn't generate money, or that donna and amy should be paying for all this and maintaining it all themselves at a loss!

Personally, I like the idea of choosing between a membership or ads. Especially b/c if there is a choice, I can come here and nobody else will know if I'm paying extra or not, and if I look at ads I won't feel guilty if I choose not to donate.

[Empress Busy Bee]

One precaution though: if you open several tabs and you decide you want to close just one of those tabs, do NOT click on the red X in the uppermost right-hand corner of your screen. That X is there to close the window and it will close ALL the tabs you have open in that window.
That's not exactly true for IE. Unless you've changed the setting/option, you get a pop up asking if you want to close all tabs when you click on the red x. At least that's how it is on my computer and my in laws. :)

[RoseRed]

After donating my time, stress and everything else that keeps a large site going - I have no problem at all with the Admins recieving a salary. I also understand that it wouldn't take place until there was actually monies left over from running the forum.

As far as anyone else knowing what and who is paid for or not is no one's business but your own. I like the Ad-free membership and it's anonymity on the subject.

Empress busy Bee - I haen't run into that problem with IE or with FF. Which browser are you using?

[wammytammy]

I barely notice the google links. I have been to other sites like crochet pattern central that have the ad-banners, no big problem. I think as long as they are up top, on the bottom or side. I wouldn't mind ads for Crochet related(Maybe even for Crafts Supplies) as long as they are not in the middle of a thread.

[busymomof7]

That's not exactly true for IE. Unless you've changed the setting/option, you get a pop up asking if you want to close all tabs when you click on the red x. At least that's how it is on my computer and my in laws. :)

Oh thanks, you are correct. I do not usually use Explorer. My son, who is our resident "geek" (majoring in computer stuff) says that Explorer is the worst browser you can use due to the fact that most viruses and spyware target it. In other words, you are more likely to get something unwanted on your computer if you use Explorer on a regular basis. I am not a geek, but I take his word on it. However, that being said, I definitely like that feature in Explorer! The prompt is nice. More than once, in Firefox, I have absentmindedly closed my entire window when I meant to only close a particular tab. Duh! :blush

[RachelG]

The prompt is nice. More than once, in Firefox, I have absentmindedly closed my entire window when I meant to only close a particular tab. Duh! :blush

Whatever did we do before tabbed browsing?!

Just a tip: Try going to (in Mozilla Firefox): Tools, then Options, then Tabs, and then making sure "Warn me when closing multiple tabs" is check-marked. Might help. :)

[suzyp]

First off I would like to commend Amy and Donna for running a very warm and welcoming site.
As a new member (and a new crocheter) I would not have paid money to join...however, now that I have browsed the site for about a month I would have to say that yes I would be willing to pay a membership fee.
In short, could you have a free introductory period so people could see what a great site it is before paying for it?

[AmyS]

First off I would like to commend Amy and Donna for running a very warm and welcoming site.
As a new member (and a new crocheter) I would not have paid money to join...however, now that I have browsed the site for about a month I would have to say that yes I would be willing to pay a membership fee.
In short, could you have a free introductory period so people could see what a great site it is before paying for it?

Just to reiterate again for those who haven't read through all the pages of this thread, we will NOT charge a membership fee that everyone must pay. Donna and I strongly believe in keeping this forum free for our members.

However, we are considering all the suggestions for OPTIONAL plain old donations and then separate subscriptions that would allow members not to see ads when they visit Crochetville. We hope to have information to share on this in the next few days.

Before we can decide on what we want to offer, we have to thoroughly investigate the technical behind-the-scenes aspects. It would not be good to announce we're going to do one thing, go off to implement, and then discover it won't work due to forum software limitations or something. So just give us a little more time to finish our technical investigations, and then we'll be able to give you all an update on what we can do, and then we'll just cross our fingers that things work out smoothly! :)

[sammimag]

Thank you for looking in to all of this. I don't think I have said so already but I really do appreciate all the behind the scenes work that goes into this forum.

[rlanto]

I didn't read through everything, but I think I'm getting the gist of the what is happening.

Personally, I would not mind a voluntary donations to remove ads. I would do it in a heart beat, because they annoy me. I pay for a lot of services (about 20$ or so a year) just to get rid of ads. I would even give money to google if they would take them out of my gmail account!!!

That said, if that's not an option, donating through paypal would be easy and I would do that as well. Also, I would pay a higher price for the things I get from the cafepress store. I like to send things out for donations and such with CV notecards so I'll be buying them on a fairly regular basis.

I think you guys are amazing and do a really incredible job of maintaining the site. I have taken to recommending it to everyone I know who crochets, because I think it is such an asset.

[eurolyons]

As a person who is a member on a paid non crochet site elsewhere...paying a membership fee doesn't always mean that the ads go away (unless Amy does set things up so that you don't see the ads if you do pay...) I don't mind the ads...they don't distract for me...here or the other site I'm on...the other place has text only ads and I barely notice them...

I personally hope this place stays free, but if Amy and Donna ever decide that the time has come to start charging for membership, I'll be here willingly.

[craftybutterfly]

I like cupcakes idea of a pattern library than members could buy from and get a pdf mailed to them. That would be much less work than an etsy shop selling items.

A handful of members could donate time to help with that.

You know, that's not a bad idea. Some of us could "donate" our own designs. I'd be willing anyway. And thanks a GOZILLION for keeping membership free. So many of our members are blessed to be able to afford $25 a year, some of us are not. We are a one income (mine) family, and I"m raising two teen agers. Some times just putting food on the table is a stretch. If there were suddenly a membership fee, I'd have to choose between buying yarn and becoming a member, and I'm afraid I'd have to go bye-bye. So thanks thanks thanks again for keeping it free! :clap And thanks to Donna and Amy for all their hard work! You guys are worth your weight in gold!!!

However, I can surely donate a pattern or two (that I've been keeping to myself) for the purpose of selling from a "library", and now and then I can even donate $5. I"m willing to help in whatever way to make up for the fact that a membership fee would just not be possible for me at the moment.

As for the ads, what ads? I guess that show's how much attention I pay to them. LOL

[craftybutterfly]

Due to a few things out of my control I haven't been around lately but I just wanted to give my 2 cents worth on this. As some of you know I was the longtime editor for Bellaonline crochet, knitting, and Rug making as well as the owner of www.medidit.com (http://www.medidit.com), www.spottedtailgate.com (http://www.spottedtailgate.com) and the new www.hookyarnandneedles.com (http://www.hookyarnandneedles.com) In all this time I was never compensated but I still did it. Yes there is expense that comes out of your pocket but now that Crochetville is growing very large I completely understand the need to do google ads as well as other ads. I have EVERY confidence that the Crochetville administrators will make the ads very tasteful. This is about the best way to help pay for upkeep of the site. I have had to do the very same thing on one of my sites. Just like Crochetville, I had to make a decision do I just shut it down or do I add a few ads. I decided to do the ads. Donna and Amy thanks so much for all of your hard work, no matter what you decide I too will still be coming here giving my 2 cents worth :devil

HEY GIRL!!!! I didn't know you were hanging 'round here now :D I just saw this and 'bout fell out of my chair. Welcome to the 'ville! Bella was my "crochet home" for a looooong time before I came over to the 'ville. I kinda stopped going over there when you left :( . it just wasnt the same any more.

[BarbaraJean]

I've not read this entire thread but did read the "State of the Forum" post. I just wanted to say a huge thank you to Donna and Amy for all they do to keep this forum available to us. I enjoy it so much!

I do not mind the ads at all.

[Misa]

Wow! Lots of response to this very important thread.

Donna and Amy y'all have really made something amazing here. If it weren't for finding the 'Ville a few months ago I wouldn't even be crocheting again. That can never be repaid. But I'm willing to try :D

Another suggestion: I also belong to the Wet Canvas board (for artists) and they have membership levels that as far as I can tell have no perks to them. They're just a tool. You get a little icon next to your name if you become a "Friend". I'm Bronze...don't use it that much. Here? I'd have to be a Double Platinum Friend!

I agree, I probably wouldn't have signed up if it weren't free. I would now in hindsight, but not at first. Of course, I wouldn't have stuck around long enough to see how great the place is. Being in some CALs now, I see that some folks can barely afford yarn. I think we've all been there.

I think the PayPal donation button for folks to send money here and there is a fabulous idea. And yes, it should be implemented the first moment one of you have a chance! We'd probably crash PayPal :lol

Whatever you two decided is fine with me!

[bbutton]

Donna & Amy: You are doing a great job!

Are there any Crochetville items we can purchase, like in Cafepress? That might help the cause!

[Shellybrook]

I know we have all said thank you for what you are doing, but it just occured to me to thank you for including us in your decisions.

It is very apparent that most of us are practically begging you for a "fee" of some sort, and that you are dead set against it. I really appreciate that as well. You have built a forum of comradery and are clearly standing by that with your decisions regarding the membership fee AND by including all of us in the growth and development of the forum.

Thank you thank you thank you!

[FelixLake]

I haven't been posting for awhile, but still check in occasionally to read.
I just wanted to say "Thanks" to everyone who keeps this site going!
The ads don't bother me a bit.
Keep up the good work.

[darski]

I want to say that I can live with the ads but I would also be willing to send some money for a membership: with or without the ads.

I definitely want to say

Thank You

for all the work that y'all do that we never see but we get the benefits all the time.

[SnoPeach]

First off, hats off :cheer to Donna and Amy for all the hard work you've put into this site.

I spent much of last year :lurk reading posts on the site, and prior to that, I checked in from time to time. I barely noticed the Google ads or their disappearance. While I did notice the reappearance today, the ads are as inobtrusive as they could be.

There have been some interesting ideas put forth for us to assist in the maintenance of the site. One of the ideas that struck me as might be a compromise for those who have encountered financial challenges, would be to accept pattern donations in lieu of cash, to be 'sold' through a pattern 'library' (maybe have different limits on printing depending on whether a donation has been made - e.g. max 10/month if none, max 100 if $arbitrary amount).

It's probably too much administrative headache, but if this were some sort of charitable organization where tax receipts were issued for cash or 'in-kind' [pattern/auction-able items] donations, maybe the assistance could go both ways? On second thought, this doesn't sound feasible, but maybe it's another avenue to explore, as this is a not-for-profit concern/organization.

Another way of looking at providing a benefit for donations received is to somehow suppress the ad's when a person goes to print a pattern from the 'library' -- then only the person who has paid can tell, which seems to be a desirable option.

In case I forgot - :ty - for making this site so comfortable and supportive and informative. And for taking on the job(s) of keeping it that way.

[AmyS]

On second thought, this doesn't sound feasible, but maybe it's another avenue to explore, as this is a not-for-profit concern/organization.


I need to clarify something here. Just having the .org domain classification does not indicate that site is a nonprofit organization. The .org domain was originally organized for that, but then many different types of groups and organizations began to use it.

Crochetville is NOT a nonprofit organization. Crochetville is a limited liability corporation now in form of its legal business structure.

[KnicKnac]

AWESOME!!! I see you two have been busy! I LOVE IT!!! Thank you - THANK YOU!!!!

[AmyS]

KnicKnac, you beat me to my announcement over here! Yes, Donna and I have been very busy behind the scenes this past week, thinking about all the input we've received in this thread. Based on all the suggestions, we've added two new posts to the Board Announcements folder:

Opting Out of Advertising (http://www.crochetville.org/forum/showthread.php?t=45360) (for those who don't want to see ads)

Tip Jar (http://www.crochetville.org/forum/showthread.php?t=45406) (for those who don't mind the ads, but still want to make a donation)

Please click the links and check out your options. :)

[needlesandpinza]

Oh I love the new ad box at top!!!!!! Looks great Amy & Donna

[Misa]

Excellent solutions all around, ladies! Great work making what I'm sure were very hard decisions :clap :cheer

[KnicKnac]

:elle :elle :elle :elle :elle :elle :elle :elle :elle :elle

Can I just once again say a WOO HOO!!! Thanks to you Amy and Donna for all you do! I am proud to be a member of this community!

[RachelG]

KnicKnac, you beat me to my announcement over here! Yes, Donna and I have been very busy behind the scenes this past week, thinking about all the input we've received in this thread. Based on all the suggestions, we've added two new posts to the Board Announcements folder:

Opting Out of Advertising (http://www.crochetville.org/forum/showthread.php?t=45360) (for those who don't want to see ads)

Tip Jar (http://www.crochetville.org/forum/showthread.php?t=45406) (for those who don't mind the ads, but still want to make a donation)

Please click the links and check out your options. :)

Amy (and Donna), IMVHO, what you've done is perfect. Tip Jar is great, Opting Out of Advertising is great, keeping the forum free is great.....

I think it will work! (Let us know if it doesn't, we'll find the spare pennies 'round the house.) :)

[TX CrochetLover]

Amy, you and Donna are really good at listening to the members and doing so much work to make this board great! The options you provided are a great answer to both the cost of the board and the freedom to belong with out cost to each and everyone!

[catheryn]

:elle :elle :elle :elle :elle :elle :elle :elle :elle :elle

Can I just once again say a WOO HOO!!! Thanks to you Amy and Donna for all you do! I am proud to be a member of this community!

And let the people say "AMEN"

I just let my itchy finger click on paypal and made my donation. Ads do not bother me.....as a matter of fact, if I understand correctly, if I let my itchy fingers click on the ads also, it generates revenue for the "Ville. So my fingers are gonna click like crazy and viisit each site daily to help out.

[FlowerPower06]

Donna and Amy...mucho Kudos to the both of you for such hard work, dedication, passion and caring for Crochetville and all the members. You both are doing a great job and are making gre