Gotta get something off my chest

[crochettreasures]

Yesterday I received an email from a coworker informing us of an upcoming art show in the park behind our office. In the body of the email he made it clear that this was an art show "not a craft fair" and that the artisans would be selling their "fine art" throughout the show.

Well - this really frosted my cookies. Why is it that art and crafts go hand in hand when your in school, major chain stores sell "art and craft" supplies. But when it comes to painting, sculpting, etc. there is a definate divide between the two. I replied to his email in this fashion:

Hey - while I realize that the upcoming art show is a "fine" art show. I would like to set the record straight. Crafters are artisans in their own right. The mediums used may be different but you will NEVER find two designs that are exactly the same, every piece of work is an original hence a work of "art".

Now was I just being nasty? I didn't think so. I also suggested to this person (who happens to be an Art buyer - at my office) to check out some of the work people that I know have completed. the tapestries, afghans, clothing items. I'm not sure if he did or not.

I hope he did - nor did I even get an apology for his faux pau.

I thought that we as a group of talented individuals were finally getting the recognition that this talent deserves. Apparently I was mislead..or had my hopes up too much.

Has anyone else ever been in this type of situation before?

[faeriegirl1972]

there is real fine line between art and craft. Most people don't consider clothes or blankets art. Many of things displayed here are most definately art in my eyes.

[Me&P]

I always thought that "craft" was more "function" and "art" was more "non-necessity/beautification/thought-provoking". ie A person makes a chair - but it is not art, it is a craft. A person paints that chair, then it might be considered artwork - but the chair did not need the paint to fulfil its function, it only made it beautiful. That make sense? So a tapestry meant to hang on the wall would be art - but the crocheted dishcloth would be craft.

[crochettreasures]

I guess that does make sense to a certain degree. But when I think about crocheting (yes we do make functional things) I think about all the wonderful things people do that can be two/fold both functional but yet asthetic. Example, Doilies made not to be used as doilies but framed as wall hangings "art"

Like Faeriegirl said - there is definately a fine line here.

[AidanM]

It's funny how OUR blankets and such aren't considered art, but take a blanket made 200 years ago by a Native American woman and it's a *******g MUSEUM PIECE and it's called NATIVE ART.

Something to think about, eh?

It's almost as though the implication is "Well, they didn't HAVE any other medium. But now we don't have to make blankets to do stuff like this, so anybody that makes blankets is just a crafter."

[crochettreasures]

I guess then when I've passed on from this live into another my blankies will be art?

[Katchkan]

Anything that goes beyond the odinary to me becomes art. A chair made by a true artist of chair making would take your breath away and it becomes art. I have seen furniture. dishes, clothing that are all works of art. I have seen many of the same things that were just functional but well done and thats craftsmanship.
Again where do we draw the distinction of which is which. In truth that is going to a private answer. What touches me may not touch someone else.
But that doesn't help in this sitution. I think that we as the ones who are the artists and craftmen of crochet need to educate the world that we can be and are, more than afgans, dishclothes, ectetra.
Art must be original, Not following any pattern. So if I had some original pieces of extrodinary workmanship, I would be tempted to push the issue. But if I was just looking for an outlet for my items I would not push it.
Sorry didn't mean to go on so.............

[AidanM]

I guess then when I've passed on from this live into another my blankies will be art?
Nah, more like when your great-great grandchildren have passed on and they've dug up your house.

"Today we're on the site of yet ANOTHER astounding home, where a large stash of ancient yarn has been discovered along with several finished works of Native Art. Strangely, there seems to be a number of unfinished projects lying around. As though the people who lived here were crocheting up until the moment of their death. A skeleton found in what seems to be the main living area was found to have what the excavators are calling a Cro-ch-ett hook. More on this amazing dig as we get the information, back to you Bill."

[thecrochetdude]

When I was at art college they had their annual professor & staff exhibit one year. The financial aid officer and another staffer tried to get some cross stitch included and it was overwhelmingly vetoed. It was amazingly beautiful stuff but wasn't "art" in the eyes of the gallery. Sad, huh?

Here is an interesting blog post that Regina made about this subject:

Functional v. Nonfunctional (http://monstercrochet.blogspot.com/2005/05/functional-v-nonfunctional.html)

[bjz]

Ouch! This one hits close to home with me, being in the business that I am.
We sell wood surfaces and all kinds of pattern packets, brushes etc on our website for decorative artists.

If you pick up any painting magazine in any store you will more then likely see an artist's design on one of our wood pieces. Some of these artists are Master Decorative Artists who design books and pattern packets for us to paint their designs. Much like a crochet pattern.

Now for the fun part. When we go to sell our painted pieces, they will not recognize us at the local art council, of which, by the way we were business members when we had our studio open.

We wanted our studio to be on the tour for the fall season. Which meant that they would come and tour your studio and suggest that people shop there and perhaps take classes. Some of the board members refused us. Nicely they thought, but none the less, we weren't good enough.

"You use patterns from other artists to do your painting" they told us.
Their reasoning was that we were not using orignal designs that we as artists did ourselves but used patterns and directions from someone else. Duh, that's what decorative painting is all about.

I did inform them that Michaelango used patterns with holes punched in them and then placed them on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and blew smoke thru the holes to get the pattern on the ceiling. There were many that helped him draw some of those figures.

As for your art or "craft" as some will insist it is. :lol
It's only considered art if you make the yarn, that means spinning it after it's sheared and then design something on your own. I found this out because I looked into the Pa guild of craftsman to try to get in their show. I was refused because I didn't design that still life that I was trying to sell. Even though I handpainted it and made the wood furniture that it was on.
I got a list of requirements and for the garments out of yarn, that's what it said.

Even though lots of time your pieces will look hundreds of times better then someone who considers themselves an "Artist" per say. This is the rule. One piece that comes to mind just on this site yesterday was the swan doily. What a great piece !!! That was awesome! That took lots of talent.

This person in your office, wants to see orignal work done by what he considers an "artist". In other words he's a snob. Definitly not worth the time it takes to tell him off. :)

I will share this with you and maybe you will not be so frustrated and find another venue to sell your pieces. Once one of our fine artists, turned decorative artist, was asked to teach a class at the local fine art group. These are the snobs.;)

When she told them to make sure that they put their reflective light (that's the light that bounces off the table onto the vase you are painting on that table) in their painting, they all sat there and just looked at her. As she walked around the room asking them why they weren't putting in that reflective light, one of them said "What's reflective light?"

She just walked up to the front of the room and showed them. As she told them. " You really should think about taking some decorative art classes as there is not a painter in our guild that's been doing decorative painting for less then a year that doesn't know what reflective light is and where to put it." :think
She put them in their place and let them know that snobbery doesn't make an artist out of you, taking classes and learning from others does.

When you create something, whether or not it's your design, it was still handmade and worth every bit as much as someone who can stand and call themselves artists.
I know a lot of great fine artist's personally and they are a wonderful group of artists that have taught me many things and helped me be a better artist myself. Some from the fine arts group in our town came and have taken classes from me. They went back and told the board that they made a horrible mistake excluding us from their tour. Made no difference. They were the snobs.
But there are those snobs out there that aren't really that good but will put their nose up in the air at you. Ignore them and just get out there and strut your stuff.
I bet ya that if you were allowed to sell your things, you'd sell more then some of those others. Maybe that's what he's afraid of. ;)

Just a little insight as this really is an issue with me. Can ya tell. ;) I feel for you and have been every bit as upset as you are right now. Just wanted to let you know that it's not only in the hand crochet and knitting world. We all suffer at the hands of the ignorant. :lol I hope this helps you a little.

Just interested... what is this guys art form and is he going to be displaying it?
~ Brenda

[crochettreasures]

I read Regina's blog - very interesting.

So not even crosstitch made the cut.

[Sissy]

I had a friend that took singing lessons (not enough in my opinion). We were watching TV one night when Sandy Patti was singing. Friend said, "She is going to ruin her voice because she is not using her diaphram." I thought to myself, she is making big bucks by not singing right, what about you?

Anyway, I said that to say this...... I figure that 3 beautiful, original crochet purses would sell way faster than one mediocre oil painting.

I agree that crocheted dishclothes are not necessarily "art" and more like "housewares". But there are definately some very artful and beautiful crocheted/knitted/woven, etc. things out there.

I just hate snobs!

[Cordelia]

Sissy pretty much summed up my thoughts. But wanted to add.... art is fickle, meaning that "the loved" comes in waves depending on who says it's good or great or even art for that matter.


Think about it.... Grandma Moses, how many saw her painting before and said OMG that looks like a 4 year old did that and then rolled there eyes... then along comes "someone " and says What art we have...this is wonderful, blah blah, then wouldnt ya know it the first naysayers are all over Grandmas painting much like a town crier singing her praises.....(just an example)

Art tends to be faddish, art is in the eye of the beholder! And coming from a family full of artist, painters, song writers, musician, writers, photographers, FIBER ARTIST, and chefs, yes I said chefs, many of whom will never be known outside in broader circles, art is something created with your soul, your spirit, if your heart sings while "creating" then its art...regardless of whos eyes are looking at it! Again I know this rant don't help with the definition, but labels suck anyway!

Btw how come furniture craftmen get their items called "functional art"? Me thinks its very grey and depends on whos doing the talking....the head sheep bleats and all the others rally round!

okay thats my 1.5 cents! :blush

[crochettreasures]

Hi Brenda - Thank you for the story and words of encouragement. My cousin is a master decorative art teacher so I know exactly what you are talking about in regards to that talent.

He (said co-worker) is an art buyer for my office. He negotiates with photographers, etc. for whatever art is needed. I guess that makes him a glorified reviewer (aka snobb). Unfortunately - this town is filled with them and most of the time I let things like this roll off my back like water off a duck. Every once in a while though - my eyes are wide opened to activity such as this. I think, it hit home mainly because I would have never thought this would come from him.

I am proud of what I accomplished and always awed by other folks talent.

[AidanM]

People seem to think that it's "easy" to follow a pattern, and that this means we're nothing more than imperfect versions of the machines that make store-bought sweaters.

Ha! haha! I'd like to see them read a pattern, especially a complex one, and get it right without a little bit of knowledge and talent.

[sjkmaurice]

I would have asked him to clarify. When you said he's the art buyer for the office and negotiates with photographers, it sounds to me like he didn't mean all art, but instead painting, drawings, photographs, etc. You know, stuff to hang on the wall. So if you have doilies in frames or cross-stitch items to hang, I'd show them to him.

[mythunderbird]

i agree, let them try :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol People seem to think that it's "easy" to follow a pattern, and that this means we're nothing more than imperfect versions of the machines that make store-bought sweaters.

Ha! haha! I'd like to see them read a pattern, especially a complex one, and get it right without a little bit of knowledge and talent.

[klouised]

I would like to put a bit of what I have learned over the years concerning this subject. I don't want to sound like I know it all, because the fact is art changes with who is the most popular at the time to make such a statement. I grew up with my mother taking me with her to art/craft shows. She was/is one of the best decorative painters that I know. I, then, went on to do oil portraits, and I displayed my items in shows, too. I got to see both sides of the art/craft war. It is a war, just about, too. My mother was an excellent painter, but she was a decorative painter on wood, so she used patterns. She then started making her own original work, but would make more than one of the same item. She was told many times that is why she couldn't be accepted in Fine Art Shows, because the work wasn't original. She then would make "one-of-a-kinds", and they told her that it wasn't challenging enough. What! Her stuff took longer to do than someone who paints a canvas orange and says that it expresses tranquility. Duh! You stand there long enough looking at it, it will make you so tranquil you'll go to sleep.
When I started in the Fine Arts, I heard comments from professional artists and teachers that the work has to be original and show "artistic expression". "Artistic Expression" is what the person(s) in charge says it is. LOL. I personally think that selling a 4 year old girl's paintings for thousands of dollars, just because she has the "feel" of color is rediculous. Her father was an artist. She grew up watching him. People, get real!! The thing is someone came along and said it was great. Picasso got famous, because he was part of a wealthy and well-known family. They had the connections to get his work sold for a lot of money.

Most of the people in charge of these shows don't have art background, or very little. They are mostly the people who have the money to pull it off. What they say is what is. Judges at shows are problems, too. They judge by their taste in style, not by the person's level of technique or "expression".

Basically, I have learned that painting on canvas (NOT Bobb Ross style, even though I loved his Happy Clouds), sculpture, drawing and photography are Fine Art. Some people let other arts in, but not all. All others are Crafts.

[Raquel]

Hey there. Quite a heated discussion! So not to add fuel to the fire, but at the county fair here, they put photography and painting under "fine arts" and crochet under "home arts" along with jams!!!
Sheesh. With a label like that, no wonder we have trouble getting respect or getting paid what our work is worth.
:Book Raquel

[sewcrochet4fun]

FROM WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY:

fine art
n.


Art produced or intended primarily for beauty rather than utility.
Any of the art forms, such as sculpture, painting, or music, used to create such art. Often used in the plural.

crafts


To make by hand.


So...to figure this out....according to Webster, Sculpture would be fine art but yet, isn't a sculpture made by hand??

If Webster's Dictionary can't even figure this out....we will never!!!

I will say this....as one who works with all fibers, I would rather be placed in a show beside a woman who curls pipecleaners around pencils, adds googly eyes and calls him Rudolph, then I would beside a man who painted something so meticulously that it would crumble from us feeling the ridges of the paint lines.

To me...fine art is usable, appreciative art...anything we create to be used, loved, appreciated over and over again...not something created with the intent of collecting dust at a very high market price!

[mythunderbird]

hmmm well here is my :2c , right now i am making a filet picture of the statue of liberty, will not be used for anything but to make a room look nice. is this art or craft?. i disagree about that i am afraid, i feel if i make something that is original(and i do alot of original things) that it is art in the form that i , designed it , made it and shared it with others. like the cathederal afghan, that is a work of art, most people would not use that as a afghan( i know i wouldn't, i would hang it on the wall) so what does that make that? art comes in many forms, and just because it isn't painted or sculpted from clay or something, it is still art, maybe not "fine" art, but whos to say what is "fine" art. personally i would rather hang a nicely made crocheted picture than a badly painted one. or even one which was nice. it depends on what your decor is, what you feel is crafts, is also art to others. stepping off my:soap now:devil :devil

[crochettreasures]

I think your work would be considered Art.

On another note - Instead of starting a new thread - Have any of you been "nicely" turned down when offering to make a gift for someone? Just recently I found out that one of my clients is expecting their 2nd child. I thought that perhaps instead of spending 50 dollars on some flowers "That will end up dead in a week" I would suggest to my supervisor that I could "whip" something up. Maybe a baby blanket and booties. Well I got the "if you have nothing good to say don't say it at all response"

I like my clients "I get paid because of them" but I still can't understand why people have this "negative" feeling about something homemade.

I sort of makes me want to stop offering to make things.

[AidanM]

crochettreasures, that is just awful! But it's only their loss, right? Still, that's just so RUDE of them. I mean, you're offering your time and effort. Two things that most people don't get much of in today's world, if you ask me.

[mythunderbird]

oh yea, had that happen many a times. so now if it is someone that i am not close to, and know that it will probably be shoved under the bed, i only give a card. maybe that don't seem right to not buy the baby something, but since i NEVER buy baby gifts and always make them,(that is just such a issue with me) thats the way the baby bottle bounces:lol :lol :lol :lol but i sure do know what you mean. is wrong of people to assume just because it is hand made it isn't as nice as store bought. i mean someone had to make it right?even if it was made on a machine someone did it. so why would something so wonderful as hand made be offensive to some people i do not know, but is their loss, sorry another issue with me:lol :lol :lol stepping down off my:soap again:devil :devil

[losingmymind2]

When one of our 'big bosses' in the home office was expecting twins, we passed around a pair of simple crochet afghans and everyone worked at least a row of them. The parents were so thrilled that we though of making something for them.

Kathy

[crochettreasures]

Oh I just have to realize that I work in a "man's world" and they just won't understand.

We spend thousands of dollars a year on gifts for clients. I thought I would offer but oh well. I'm going to stick with charity work and making things for people who do appreciate them ;)

[Aggie May]

On the question of ART versus CRAFT. :cheer :cheer :cheer
Maybe we could look at it from the perspective that all ART is a CRAFT creating a WORK OF ART, where-as, all CRAFT is ART creating a WORK OF CRAFT.
What you do is CRAFT but what you make is ART. Who cares what the ARTY FARTY people think, have your own exhibition and sale and leave them to themselves.:devil :devil :devil

On the question of people not appreciating Handmade things, well, as someone else said, that is their loss. I love nicely made handmade stuff any day over bought. You always know that thought went into the Handmade where-as the bought thing only took money.
:hug :hug :hug
Have fun.
Colleen

[origami]

I think your work would be considered Art.

On another note - Instead of starting a new thread - Have any of you been "nicely" turned down when offering to make a gift for someone? Just recently I found out that one of my clients is expecting their 2nd child. I thought that perhaps instead of spending 50 dollars on some flowers "That will end up dead in a week" I would suggest to my supervisor that I could "whip" something up. Maybe a baby blanket and booties. Well I got the "if you have nothing good to say don't say it at all response"

I like my clients "I get paid because of them" but I still can't understand why people have this "negative" feeling about something homemade.

I sort of makes me want to stop offering to make things.

What is very sad is seeing all the handmade knit and crochet items that end up in thrift stores. Unbelievable! Thankfully, my mother saved all the handmade items that my grandmother made for me when I was a baby. I have some very beautiful dresses and sweaters that I will save for my own grandchildren. My grandmother was a gifted seamstress and knitter. I also have the afghan that my other grandmother crocheted for me.

I just don't understand why people throw these things away.

If you think about it, it shows a great deal of disrespect for the women of previous generations who worked hard to create these items, who undoubtedly put creativity and love into every stitch!

I do think crochet, like knitting, is coming back, though! Seriously! Meanwhile, I like to think of it this way. When you see these hand knit and crochet items in the thrift store, someone is going to come along and buy them and use them. So even if the intended recipient didn't appreciate them, someone will.

[mythunderbird]

well said colleen:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap On the question of ART versus CRAFT. :cheer :cheer :cheer
Maybe we could look at it from the perspective that all ART is a CRAFT creating a WORK OF ART, where-as, all CRAFT is ART creating a WORK OF CRAFT.
What you do is CRAFT but what you make is ART. Who cares what the ARTY FARTY people think, have your own exhibition and sale and leave them to themselves.:devil :devil :devil

On the question of people not appreciating Handmade things, well, as someone else said, that is their loss. I love nicely made handmade stuff any day over bought. You always know that thought went into the Handmade where-as the bought thing only took money.
:hug :hug :hug
Have fun.
Colleen

[Irishkitty]

I think your work would be considered Art.

On another note - Instead of starting a new thread - Have any of you been "nicely" turned down when offering to make a gift for someone? Just recently I found out that one of my clients is expecting their 2nd child. I thought that perhaps instead of spending 50 dollars on some flowers "That will end up dead in a week" I would suggest to my supervisor that I could "whip" something up. Maybe a baby blanket and booties. Well I got the "if you have nothing good to say don't say it at all response"

I like my clients "I get paid because of them" but I still can't understand why people have this "negative" feeling about something homemade.

I sort of makes me want to stop offering to make things.

I guess I have seen the other side of the coin--people at church who seem to be waiting for me to offer to make them something! Sometimes that can cause problems. If I've made blankets for a couple of people that I know and care about and then someone I hardly know gets pregnant they seem to expect a blanket. I am not into just making baby blankets for every child in the church, I do them for families I care about, that I am friends with. And the only problem I've had giving one a blanket was when my friend Barb said the blanket I'd made for her baby was "too pretty to use". I pointed out that a) it was meant to be used, b) it was machine wash and dry and c) why would I make her something I didn't want her to use?

As far as art vs craft -- I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.

[dhaunae]

And the only problem I've had giving one a blanket was when my friend Barb said the blanket I'd made for her baby was "too pretty to use". I pointed out that a) it was meant to be used, b) it was machine wash and dry and c) why would I make her something I didn't want her to use?

LOL! My daughter did that to me, absolutely infuriates me. I gave her three afghans, and two of them she never used. She would hang them on the side of the crib for display, but she never actually used them for the same reason as your friend ... they were "too pretty". This child lived with me, you'd think she'd have figured out I get my kicks from seeing people use the things I make. Oh well.

[klouised]

Oh!! I've had that happen, too. I've made bathing suits and given them to other people. They tell me that they are too pretty to wear. :eek So, do they want an ugly one? I don't make ugly. It's pretty or nothing. Take it or leave it. :devil I know that they don't realize how it sounds comming back to you, but it does sound funny. I know they don't mean harm, but it's still agrivating never the less.

[crochettreasures]

The too pretty to use or too pretty to wear saga continues. With my gifts I usually place washing and storage instructions along with a hand written note explaining what the thing its (many family members mistaken my dishcloths as doilies - LOL) and sometimes list the uses of the item. I recently made dishclothes for our fellow family members who have campers. All of them said "its too pretty to use". HELLO we are in campers/camping. Nothing is too pretty to use when its in the camper lol.

[bjz]

This is a very interesting thread and it's getting better by the day. :)

My brother came from the same parents as I did and we were always using our talents to make things. He's an industrial arts teacher and my father was a woodworker as well. There are five of us kids and if we weren't making something my father would ask us why were weren't doing someting productive.
My brother married someone who dispises homemade things. If you can't buy it somewhere she doesn't want it in her home. Everything that anyone in our family made and gave them was tossed in the trash. My poor brother never wanted anyone to visit because we'd never see anything that we made in their home. It took us a few years to catch on. ;)

One day he came to my shop and saw a coat rack shaped piece with a beautiful still life on it that I painted and he asked me if he could buy my piece. I told him that if he hung it in his garage next to his Porsche that he rebuilt to hang his sweaters and hats on I'd give it to him.

He smiled and said that's excactly what he wanted it for. He told me that even if she begs him for it, he wouldn't give it to her.
Well, guess what, she begged ( it would have really looked good in her kitchen) but it's still in the garage and it still holds his hat and his sweater that he wears when he takes that convertible Porsche for a drive.

She actually had the audacity to ask me to paint one for her kitchen. I told her that it was a special one of a kind painting and that I would never paint another one like it as it gives me joy to know that my brother thinks of me and our history togehter whenever he looks at it.
It only took 35 years to get her back for throwing away the great holiday dress that I made for my niece one Christmas.:lol:cheer

Just hang in there with your beautiful pieces that you all create. Don't ever give something you make to anyone who will not totally appreciate it.
I paint a lot of things and give them to my sister and some of my closest friends. I see them in their homes and know that they appreciate them. Therefore it just makes me want to make them more. Create for those who really appreciate it.

This past year I knitted all my closest friends poncho's for Christmas. we all had different colored ones. Once when we all met for dinner at a resturant one evening, we all had them on. It was quite a scene going in the resturant and we all laughed. It's moments like these that make all of us happy.
So the heck with spending time on making things that people don't appreciate. Not enough time left for making things that some will pass on to their grandchildren just because you made them.

[crochettreasures]

Bj - Well said. I can't believe that your SIL (wait a minute - I have relatives like that - I can believe it)

What I don't believe is that folks will purchase items that "look" handmade from stores - but really arent and then toss the truely hand made items aside.

I wouldn't make anything for her either.

[jonamc]

Isn't it amazing that one thinks a bunch of sticks glued to a board in an interesting arrangement or a canvas with three solid coloured lines on it are considered "fine" art, but a beautiful thread crochet doily, or sweater or Irish Crochet baby bonnet are considered "crafty"? Artistic taste is all in the art community's mouth! I have seen some amazing Irish Crochet wedding gowns that would put most paintings to shame!!!!

[dudleyspinner]

The art vs craft debate has gone on for ages. There is a bias against "handwork". Its been there for the 20 some years I have been a fiber artist.
David Letterman has been having a segment, Artist or Ape, the paintings are shown and Dave and Paul have to guess whether it was painted by an artist, or an ape.

All five paintings, have been painted by apes.

Fine Art??? It's in a frame isn't it.
Deb

[mythunderbird]

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl The art vs craft debate has gone on for ages. There is a bias against "handwork". Its been there for the 20 some years I have been a fiber artist.
David Letterman has been having a segment, Artist or Ape, the paintings are shown and Dave and Paul have to guess whether it was painted by an artist, or an ape.

All five paintings, have been painted by apes.

Fine Art??? It's in a frame isn't it.
Deb

[crochettreasures]

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
All five paintings, have been painted by apes.


Its so easy to create "fine art" even a monkey can do it. Also - elephants. anyone seen that?

[craftybutterfly]

Basically, I have learned that painting on canvas (NOT Bobb Ross style, even though I loved his Happy Clouds), sculpture, drawing and photography are Fine Art. Some people let other arts in, but not all. All others are Crafts.

I LOVE Bob Ross! how in the world can some one slap paint on a canvas with a 3 inch brush (!!!) and make it look like he did, with happy little trees!

ok, here's my two cents. i have no art back ground other than the required art classes in school. i have no degrees or pedigrees in art. my brother is really good at drawing, and i have three uncles who have all sold their paintings, but i cant draw stick people. personally, i think we are ALL artists in our own rights. whether the design is original or from a pattern. i have seen some "art" work that sold for thousands of dollars, and i probably wouldn't have paid $1 for it at the Family Dollar store, but somebody liked it enough to pay the cash. i've also seen some "art" that was totally offensive, not to mention desgusting to look at, and the guy was getting an endowment to do it with. go figure. to me, art snobs are no different than yarn snobs.
all of us that come and post here should be proud of our work! we are INDEED artists, regardless what others think. our work is two-fold: it is beautiful, AND functional, and that's even better than just being beautiful to look at.
a beautiful car looks great in the drive-way, but if it doesn't run..... see what I mean? plus, most have no clue the amount of work and time that goes into what we do. crochet makes me happy in the inside, and that is art.

[Tara]

Well.....I was an artist, or at least what is widely described as an artist. I painted, drew, studied color and composition, blah blah blah. I was really good, too. Then life happened. It's a long story, but I have some permenant hand damage. Can't hold a pencil or paintbrush for very long anymore. It literally will just drop out of my grip. I spent a lot of years depressed about it. I mean, I think and feel like an artist, yet I can't create what I was trained to create. And it's hard to see my crappy works now, knowing how good I was before.
Eventually, I discovered graphic programs on the computer. I took to them like a fish in water. And I felt like an artist again. I also discovered, oddly enough, that I can hold a crochet hook, and my grip is not affected. So I did that. And now, I am a crochet artist. I consider each new item the same as I would a new painting. I don't like making the same thing twice, because it would be like drawing the same picture twice. Boring and uncreative. I make things up as I go along, because that was how I painted. Just start creating and see what you end up with. I dunno about the rest of you, but I FEEL like an artist, and I love feeling that way again. I've even been brave enough to try painting again. The paintings are not nearly as good as they used to be, but crocheting has given me the courage to keep trying.
So, to all the "artsy fartsy" snobs (by all means, not all artists, just the snobby ones) who want to call me a "crafter" (not that there is anything wrong with crafting).....
:loser:loser:loser:loser:loser

[craftybutterfly]

Tara! :cry Your story is tragic, and sweet at the same time. Tragic in that you could no longer do what you loved doing, and sweet because crochet has given you "new life" in your artwork. God-bless!:clap

[chickpea67]

In my opinion

it's only a "craft" until you actually try it yourself. Once you actually try something it becomes an artform--as many of us can attest to with projects that didnt quite turn out as we expected.

[crochettreasures]

How true, Chickpea. :D

[Red883]

all of us that come and post here should be proud of our work! we are INDEED artists, regardless what others think. our work is two-fold: it is beautiful, AND functional, and that's even better than just being beautiful to look at.


Hurrah!! So true...and thank you for saying that.
Interesting and informative thread...

[Burgandy]

Recently I was in the largest fine art museum in Dallas. They had a huuuuuuuge display of woven items from India. Next to many of them were the methods used to make them. Some were tie dyed, some were embrodiered and others were various combinations of all types of techniques. All were stunning. They had a huge banner outside the museum advertising the display and it was my favorite part, better than the Van Gough exhibit. I told my future-father-in-law's girlfriend, Gayle,, my guide of the museum, that I wanted to try to do an interpritation of one piece in crochet. She thought that was brilliant. By the way, Gayle is an art critic for the Ft. Worth newspaper. If they say textiles arn't art, tell them to call the Dallas Museum of Art.

[mythunderbird]

Well.....I was an artist, or at least what is widely described as an artist. I painted, drew, studied color and composition, blah blah blah. I was really good, too. Then life happened. It's a long story, but I have some permenant hand damage. Can't hold a pencil or paintbrush for very long anymore. It literally will just drop out of my grip. I spent a lot of years depressed about it. I mean, I think and feel like an artist, yet I can't create what I was trained to create. And it's hard to see my crappy works now, knowing how good I was before.
Eventually, I discovered graphic programs on the computer. I took to them like a fish in water. And I felt like an artist again. I also discovered, oddly enough, that I can hold a crochet hook, and my grip is not affected. So I did that. And now, I am a crochet artist. I consider each new item the same as I would a new painting. I don't like making the same thing twice, because it would be like drawing the same picture twice. Boring and uncreative. I make things up as I go along, because that was how I painted. Just start creating and see what you end up with. I dunno about the rest of you, but I FEEL like an artist, and I love feeling that way again. I've even been brave enough to try painting again. The paintings are not nearly as good as they used to be, but crocheting has given me the courage to keep trying.
So, to all the "artsy fartsy" snobs (by all means, not all artists, just the snobby ones) who want to call me a "crafter" (not that there is anything wrong with crafting).....
:loser:loser:loser:loser:loser:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap tara, am so sorry you have lost something that meant so much to you, and also so glad you found another medium to show your talent. can't wait to see some of your creations. i feel the same way. don't give up on your painting though. maybe it will get better or your body will compensate for it, mine did, my hands are also numb from a auto accident and permenant nerve damage, but i was able to paint again after a couple of years. i was not a great artist as far as the finished project as i was still learning, but i still do it every now and then. thanks for letting us know that we are not alone. i agree to the snobs who think because you "craft'( if ya want to call crochet that, but like ya said nothing wrong with crafting, i do it all the time.) that it isn't art, well i agree they are a bunch of:loser :loser :loser :loser :loser :loser :loser :loser :loser :loser :loser :loser :hug :hug :hug :hug :hug :hug

[marymac]

I believe quilting is "crossing the line", if you want to call it that, maybe one day it will happen with other needleart.

[Celestial Seasonings]

It's funny how OUR blankets and such aren't considered art, but take a blanket made 200 years ago by a Native American woman and it's a *******g MUSEUM PIECE and it's called NATIVE ART.


That's not always the case! I'm working towards a master's degree in Native American art history right now, and I had a terrible time just FINDING a PROGRAM to enroll in. Defining Native arts as fine art rather than anthropological "evidence" is an uphill battle, one that more closely matches our battle to have crocheting/knitting recognized as art.

[PDC]

This person has to be one of the most narrow minded and ignorant to the fact person that there is when it comes to what "Art" is. Anything that is created I feel, originally from your eyes and processed out through your hands is considered art. I mean, when these so-called artisians paint, they do use a factory-made substance. They don't make the paint, the canvas, the frames, etc. themselves. The create what we see daily from their visional perception of everyday life and that is the same with our crochet. Although, crochet can be functional and nonfunctional at the same time, we do what we do through either internal vision (a design that we have thought of) or external vision (inspiration from life), which inspires us to make everything from home art right down to runway fashion, which to me is considered to be moving forms of art. I mean...artist can be snobbs in what they do. My boyfriend is an artist and although I think he is being kind about it, he realizes that what I do is a form of art for the simple fact that when I am not following a pattern, I visualize the design, make sketches of the design and then attempt to bring the design to life which means many a trial and error and some moments of frustration just like an artist. Well, 200 years from now when all the photos of people's work on this website has been discovered, their art, meaning the snobby artisians and our work, the crafty artisians, we will all be placed into the same category at the end of their day, ancient/historical forms of artwork.
You were right in what you told him. However, I would have had a few more things to say to that mentally uncouth person.

[donnalynn2]

Well, I can see your co-workers point, but just to a point. It's possible that he's thinking of "crafts" as in disclothes, doilies and hair scrunchies that are always in abundance at craft fairs. If he were to realize that there are many works of art that us crocheters do, maybe he'd be more inclined to include that as well. I don't know if this is the case, but I've run into people like this in the past.

[crochetqueen]

I had that very conversation with a "director" of fine art about 1 year ago. They do seem to have the "idea" that if it isn't painted on canvas or a milk can then well it just isn't art. I did take the time to drive to them and show them my free form halter top. Well YIPPEE SKIPPEE there were some jaw dropping and ewww and ahhhhs, they really had no idea that crochet is CERTAINLY works of art. FYI you can also "PAINT" on your yarn or thread before you use it and then turn it into whatever you wish. I myself see "fine art" in all types of mediums so I like to think of myself as very open art minded but not everyone sees it that way.